(Edit: link removed, free upgrade no longer valid)

I honestly don't know very much about Windows 10. The only bit that I do know is from the link below, explaining a possible reason for the reason why the new OS isn't called "Windows 9."


When I was a kid, my family had a Commodore 128D. It wasn't until the Christmas of '95 that we got our first Windows PC. Since then, I've seen the Windows OS grow and I've actually been fond of every new revision. Although in due time, we can see that some of them weren't all that great, especially compared to today's current versions. I most definitely loved Vista. It came out while I was working in the IT department of my local community college and many people were against it. However, I saw new changes within the operating system that I thought were pretty important in my line of work. For instance, additional security and the ability to see what you're typing when inputting a wireless network key.

After that, Windows 7 was released and I enjoyed it as well. When I got my new PC, I decided that I was going to get one with Windows 8. Windows 8.1 was a free upgrade available to me, so I went ahead and upgraded. It seems, to me at least, that many people have something negative to say every time Microsoft releases a new version of it's Windows OS. However, it also seems that those people are only looking at it at face value and therefore ignoring the improvements that have been made "under the hood." Most of their complaints seem to be purely cosmetic. People really hate the way the design of Windows has changed, but that's about as far as their complaints go, which makes it obvious that they're not paying attention to the fine tuned improvements. The truth is that Windows has made great strides in stability and security. Yet there are still many who refuse to stop using XP and upgrade to a more stable and secure version of Windows. Some will say that they don't want to have to learn how to use a new operating system. I think part of it is also because they fear change. The only valid excuse I can currently logically understand to resist upgrading is because of the cost. However, that excuse is now becoming invalid as Microsoft is offering Windows 10 as a free upgrade.

What are your thoughts? Do you know anything about the new OS? Are you going to upgrade your PC?

Azurephile   Super Member   Post Author wrote on 01/22/2015 at 10:12pm
jdodson   Admin wrote on 01/23/2015 at 02:21am

This is really interesting news. I have Windows , so I could get the upgrade. That said I am really happy with Windows 7 and really don't have a reason to upgrade. If upgrading means I get a free Windows 10 copy then great.

Azurephile   Super Member   Post Author wrote on 01/23/2015 at 03:18am

I was pretty happy with Windows 7, too. I had some doubts about 8 because of the negative things I heard. However, Travis gave me his opinion about it and I did some research. I found out that, among many things, it improves performance. So, I went ahead and decided to get a new computer with 8 instead of 7. I don't regret that decision at all. 10 is supposed to also improve performance, especially with video games (a new API), so I'm thinking I'll most likely upgrade when it's available, especially because it will be free (at least if I do so within the first year of its release).

I'm hoping that my hard drive won't have to be reformatted if I upgrade. That's honestly my only concern. I'm assuming, but I doubt that my current games and programs will have compatibility issues.

Travis   Admin wrote on 01/23/2015 at 04:43am

From my testing 10 > 8 > 7. Windows 7 is fantastic, but 8 improved on it in every way, at least for how I use Windows. I never have to see the new Metro crap for more than a few seconds, because when I want to open something I just hit winkey and start typing what I want, the same as I did in 7, so the new interface doesn't bother me. But the performance increases are definitely there, so it's worth it.

Windows 10 builds on that. I haven't used it on a live PC yet, but I've used it in a virtual machine, where I do a lot of things anyway. The VM performance of 10 blows away Windows 8, and the startup time is about the same as my actually-on-a-computer installation of Windows 8, which is saying something.

The new start menu in 10 is fantastic. It takes all the great things about Windows 8's live tiles and puts them in the familiar start menu. They've finally realized that while the Metro interface is great for tablets, it's not necessarily great for PCs, so they've taken a few good things from it and combined it with the start menu to make something truly useful.

I hear news about the next build having a new browser (using the same engine, so... meh) and some new interface changes, including Cortana, the Siri-like assistant in Windows named after the AI companion in the Halo series. I've been hoping for Siri to come to OSX, and if Cortana is good it looks like Microsoft beat Apple to the punch. There are apparently some new interface changes coming to Windows 10's taskbar as well. Honestly, I hope they don't change it much from where the current public beta is (I haven't tried any of the leaked private betas) because I really like it as it is. That said, they could come out with some amazing stuff between now and release, so I'm open to change if it's good change.

I hear they're going to a "rolling release" style of upgrades with 10 as well, so basically you never do a version upgrade again, kinda like a few Linux distributions like Arch, Gentoo, and Debian Sid, but more stable (one would hope). Plus you never have to pay for upgrades, so one Windows license lasts a lifetime. This is a good move-- Windows XP taught them that. There are still tons of XP boxes out there waiting to get compromised.

Travis   Admin wrote on 01/23/2015 at 04:43am

Also in response to your "Why Windows 10 isn't named Windows 9" link, I'll provide what I said on Facebook, with a few additions: That's a theory from a reddit user claiming to work for Microsoft, but no proof was provided and it has been countered by people at Microsoft. In the first pressers they said it was because it was a big enough change for two version numbers. And some people have speculated that since 8.1 provided some significant changes it was like version 9 itself.

Basically nobody really knows the real reason, but even though MS have denied it I wouldn't be surprised if it was the legacy win 9x code. And honestly it's a good reason. Backwards compatibility is a big plus for Windows, even if it does come with some overhead.

Anyway, yeah-- I recommend everyone try out the betas in a VM, since it's free. :)

Azurephile   Super Member   Post Author wrote on 01/23/2015 at 05:16am

I don't use the Metro stuff either, really. Like you, if I want to find something, I just hit the Windows key and type what I want in the search field. That said, I've noticed it lags a little bit once I start typing. I start typing something and then it seems to pause before I can finish typing, presumably it's beginning it's search. I can't say anything about performance because I know the reason why this PC excels over my PC has a LOT to do with the hardware. I know it can't all be attributed to the hardware, but I don't have a good visual of the same hardware on a Win7 PC.

That's great about the VM performance. Win8 seems to lack the virtual machine. To get some things to work I've installed VMware Player.

Yes, I saw in the latest news I've shared that a new browser is coming to the Win10 Tech Preview, "Sparta" is it's name, I think. I'm not really concerned about it really because I'm in love with Chrome. I don't know much of anything about Cortana, except for what I read in the link I shared. I know nothing about Siri.

That's a cool idea for the Windows upgrades.

Thanks for the input and adding what you posted on my FB link. Thanks also for your final advice. That might not be a bad idea. It seems to me that they got rid of Virtual Machines in Windows 8, so how are you running a VM?

Travis   Admin wrote on 01/23/2015 at 02:43pm

Who got rid of virtual machines in Windows 8? If there was ever a built-in way to do them, I never have. I've always done VMWare on Windows, but I'm using Parallels on my Mac for this one in particular.

jdodson   Admin wrote on 01/23/2015 at 04:10pm

I just put icons on the desktop of things I want to do. So Steam, Battle.net and whatever game I want to play. I guess hitting alt+whatever might be easier but clicking a button seems pretty simple. I don't do more than play games in Windows so unless Windows 10 improves performance significantly(and I doubt it does) I am not certain what an upgrade would accomplish.

That said, at some point they will drop Win 7 support as will games and at that time I bet i'll upgrade to something. Don't mean to be overtly curmudgeonly, I just, right now, don't see the appeal considering my use case is games only.

jdodson   Admin wrote on 01/23/2015 at 04:10pm

And the games only is waning as I can play a ton on Mac and Linux.

Azurephile   Super Member   Post Author wrote on 01/23/2015 at 05:13pm

I'm not sure, Travis. Actually, it seems Hyper-V will do it, but that's not available in the standard edition, only Professional and Enterprise. We used virtual machines at the community college. The college used some kind of testing software for a local huge business that didn't work in Vista, so we ran virtual machines so that computers could use that software that only worked in XP.

Yes, Jon, I do the same. I add them to the task bar as well. However, some times there are things within the OS I want to find and need to search for. My most recent example is Windows Update. That was the last thing I used in the fashion that me and Travis described.

As for gaming, Win10 is supposed to increase video game performance, so it seems that it will be a good idea to upgrade for video games. I read in one of the articles I shared with this post about a new API, I think. I read in another article that DirectX 12 will ship with Win10, too.

See the following link for more info: http://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwindows/2015/01/21/the-next-generation-of-windows-windows-10/

Travis   Admin wrote on 01/23/2015 at 05:54pm

Windows 8 had some non-insignificant increases in gaming performance. They weren't like blow-your-socks-off improvements but they were noticeable. And Windows 10 (while I don't have first-hand gaming experience there) seems to be following the trend. From reports I've seen on reddit's Windows 10 subreddit, it's noticeable, even in the beta stage.

Plus, yeah, new Direct X version, so if you want to take advantage of DX improvements you gotta upgrade.

AdamPFarnsworth wrote on 01/23/2015 at 07:38pm

In response to the original post, it's not a fear of change that I don't like upgrading. It's mostly laziness. Once I learn how to get around an operating system, I don't want to have to learn a new one. Once you figure out 8, you can make it behave mostly like 7/XP, but there was still some of a learning curve. Now I'm comfortable and just don't feel like learning again. I know close to nothing about how operating systems actually work, so any changes other than cosmetic I'm not too interested in. I know I'm the odd man out here, and am somewhat simplifying my position to make it a general argument from an "everyday layperson," but another upgrade seems like more work than I want to do (and I know that sounds lazy, but the computer is supposed to make me lazy. It does things for me lol)

jdodson   Admin wrote on 01/23/2015 at 07:44pm

Promoting this to main.

Azurephile   Super Member   Post Author wrote on 01/23/2015 at 08:21pm

Thanks for the input, Adam. You get some respect from me because you came out and said why. I respect that. I understand what you mean and say. I'm of a different kind, however. When a new operating system comes out, I get excited about the new changes. The learning curve is quite small with me because of my experience with operating systems or the computer. I've been an IT professional, so I think that kind of explains it, although being a computer geek does, too. To me there is no "learning curve" since it's so very small. I don't feel like I have to learn how to use a new operating system, I just do it and learn as I go. Perhaps it even just comes a bit natural to me. I hope I've made that understandable. I'm sure Travis, and probably even Jon, feel the same way I do.

Jon, thanks for promoting this to "main." I'm thinking of writing another post and yet I'm not sure whether I should put it in the forums or on the main page. It does have to do with gaming, though. I put some of my recent discussion pieces here because they're not about gaming.

Azurephile   Super Member   Post Author wrote on 01/23/2015 at 09:13pm

If you're interested in seeing the Win10 Tech Preview visit https://insider.windows.com. I believe you can sign up for free, if you don't already have an account. Once you do so visit http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/preview-iso for the .iso, otherwise it will want to upgrade your current OS. When you have the .iso download, you can try it out in VMWare Player, which can be found for free at http://www.vmware.com/products/player.

Travis   Admin wrote on 01/23/2015 at 10:35pm

I was using the Yosemite beta as my main OS for like 5 months before release. You could say I want to try out operating systems as soon as they're available, yes! :)

I love learning new stuff with an OS.

Azurephile   Super Member   Post Author wrote on 01/23/2015 at 10:48pm

When it comes to Windows, I haven't really felt much of a learning curve since I began, with a bit of an exception. The exception was when I was learning about it very much in-depth for IT classes. This includes XP and Server editions. I did attempt to get Microsoft certified, but I failed that test. Afterwards, I bought a certification exam prep book for Windows 7. Although I never took the test for that one, I did read a lot about it.

Otherwise, the other big learning curve I've experienced in recent years has had to do with Linux distributions. I think some time after high school I bought a Linux for Dummies book and began to experiment with Linux installations. In college, at Radford University and with Travis, I continued to experiment with Linux and took a class. Later, when I went back to my local community college, I took another Linux class. Since then, I've installed a Linux distribution (usually Ubuntu) on occasion as a second OS on PC, although I didn't play around with it much when I did so.

So, I've spent plenty of years learning about Linux and Windows, with Windows being the primary. I can do a lot more in Windows than I can with Linux and there's still quite a bit for me to learn about both operating systems, but I definitely know more about Windows and therefore have much less of a learning curve issue than with Linux.

Travis   Admin wrote on 01/23/2015 at 11:01pm

I feel like I can do way more in Linux than Windows, I've only tapped about 40% or so of what *can* be done in Linux. Meaning that 40% of Linux is greater than 100% of Windows. It's very capable, and you can learn until you're old and gray and not know all there is to know about it.

Azurephile   Super Member   Post Author wrote on 01/24/2015 at 12:47am

Cool and I agree with the last statement you made, which I think applies to both operating systems. As I'm sitting here with my VM of Win10, thinking about what to do with it, I came upon another thought. It might be interesting to dual boot with it. That could get me to use it more and try out everything that I currently do with 8.1.

Since we're talking about different operating systems, I think it's only fair to mention MacOS. That said, I pretty much know nothing about it. I don't hate Mac, I just don't really have any experience with them.

Travis   Admin wrote on 01/24/2015 at 05:41am

I don't think it applies to Windows. I really don't think I have much more to learn from Windows, at least the current batch. Working on Windows PCs and servers for 10 years will do that to you, though.

On my own time, though, I prefer OSX to everything. Linux in a close second, Windows only for the games Mac/Linux won't play.

Azurephile   Super Member   Post Author wrote on 01/24/2015 at 05:51am

Yeah, excellent point there, Travis. I have some in-class and work experience with Windows servers, but not very much. In class, we did pretty much everything. At work, I mostly did some updates and user configurations. Therefore, there is still plenty for me to learn or re-learn. I still have some of the books I used in IT classes at my local community college.

Azurephile   Super Member   Post Author wrote on 06/02/2015 at 04:26am

Windows 10 Release Date July 29: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/windows-10-release-date-announced/1100-6427711/

"Windows 10 Costs $120 If You Can't Get a Free Upgrade" http://www.gamespot.com/articles/windows-10-costs-120-if-you-can-t-get-a-free-upgra/1100-6427734/

I'm thinking about upgrading as soon as I can. I know it may not be perfect, although I could give it a year. I've barely spent any time in my Win10 Virtual Machine.

jdodson   Admin wrote on 06/02/2015 at 04:39am

Well. For as much as people use Windows that's not a terrible price but I can't help but think all other major OS's are free that I use.

Will anyone be upgrading to 10 on launch day? Will anyone be purchasing it? Does this give you a copy you can download from Microsoft later? What if you need to wipe Windows?

Travis   Admin wrote on 06/02/2015 at 04:05pm

I will be upgrading on launch day but making a full backup first. It will NOT interfere with Terraria. If it hoses me, I'll just restore windows 8.1.

But Windows 10 is amazing, seriously. I don't feel worried at all about upgrading.

The fact that if you have Windows 7 or higher right now, you never have to pay for windows again, is very nice.

Travis   Admin wrote on 06/02/2015 at 04:06pm

And you don't need to wipe windows unless you have an old version.

JaBo wrote on 06/02/2015 at 06:16pm

Looks good to me. Honestly, my laptop can use a reformat anyways, so I may do that and upgrade to Win10 at the same time. I think my wife will be happy to leave win8 behind where as I've been using win7 happily on both my PC and laptop.

Azurephile   Super Member   Post Author wrote on 06/02/2015 at 07:05pm

I think I'd like to upgrade without wiping my hard drive. I've been pretty pleased with new versions of Windows, even at launch many of them didn't disappoint me. I like 8.1, although I almost never use the "metro" stuff or apps. I make use of Desktop mode. So yeah, it's very likely that I'll upgrade as soon as possible. I took Travis's recommendation of 8 and I trust his opinion on 10 as I'm sure he's spent more time with it than I have.

Travis   Admin wrote on 06/02/2015 at 07:43pm

Don't trust me just yet, since nobody has seen the final version of Windows 10, it might eat your parents for all I know. :)

jdodson   Admin wrote on 06/02/2015 at 08:05pm

Most versions of any new OS are not usually that great after a few patches are when things seem to get better. If I upgrade it will be then.

For some reason having the ability to rewipe a Windows install is essential. I guess my thinking is stuck back in the 90's Windows days.

Travis   Admin wrote on 06/02/2015 at 09:54pm

OH that's what you meant. Yes, you will be able to do that. The license your free upgrade gives you will support reinstallation on that device for the life of the device.

But the refresh introduced in Windows 8 is faster and just as good at getting Windows back to a fresh install, no typical wiping required. And they're making it even better in Windows 10 from what I hear. Break the shit out of your installation? Too much crap installed dragging your system down? Two clicks, wait a few minutes, and you have a fresh installation.

Travis   Admin wrote on 06/02/2015 at 09:55pm

But yeah I seriously used to reinstall Windows all the time. Windows 7 and up don't seem to degrade the way XP and below did, though. I've never reinstalled Windows on my gaming rig, only upgraded to 8, then 8.1, and it still runs like I just bought it.

Azurephile   Super Member   Post Author wrote on 06/03/2015 at 01:12am

Yeah, I remember people recommending to do a clean install of Windows every now and then, especially if your computer began to drag or crash. I actually haven't done that in a very long time, though. I may have no more than a few times on the old PC that I built, but I'm sure it's been a long time since I did that.

I'd like to be able to just upgrade what I have because I have so much installed and stored and currently only one hard drive. My old PC had two of them, but they both died. So, my backup condition is definitely limited and vulnerable now. I'd hate to have to burn a bunch stuff to DVDs again. I also don't want to have to re-install everything. GTAV took a really long time to download and install.

My confidence is boosted by your comments, Travis. I'm hoping for a good upgrade.

Travis   Admin wrote on 06/05/2015 at 01:32pm
jdodson   Admin wrote on 06/05/2015 at 08:42pm

That's really good to know. I wonder if you can download the ISO or something.

Azurephile   Super Member   Post Author wrote on 06/05/2015 at 08:58pm

That wouldn't surprise me, Jon, as the current version of Windows 10 available to MS Insiders is an ISO.

Jon, are you running Windows on anything? If so, what version? What are your thoughts on Windows? Do you like MacOS or Linux better?

jdodson   Admin wrote on 06/06/2015 at 12:22am

"Jon, are you running Windows on anything? If so, what version? What are your thoughts on Windows? Do you like MacOS or Linux better?"

I've got Windows 7 on my PC and run Windows XP on another Desktop in the house my partner uses. Windows seems fine but it's kind of like driving, I don't really enjoy it but I do it to go places. I don't really enjoy Windows but I use it to play games. I much prefer MacOS to any Operating System and then Linux after that. Don't get me wrong, Windows is pretty good these days, I just don't prefer it.

Azurephile   Super Member   Post Author wrote on 06/06/2015 at 01:01am

Cool, "to each their own". I enjoy Windows and have dabbled in Linux. I really have no experience with MacOS, except for helping Mom with her work-provided iPad once or twice. I think Windows keeps improving and that's something I like about it. I don't really have any issues with it. I know Windows isn't cheap or always cheap, especially for the better versions.

jdodson   Admin wrote on 06/06/2015 at 01:18am

Windows is way better for sure. It also isn't cheap, but it never really was but I always had a legit copy after buying a PC. At least it seems expensive to me for as much as I use it, which isn't very often.

Travis   Admin wrote on 06/06/2015 at 05:14am

iPad's don't run Mac OS, it's an entirely separate beast called iOS.

And Jon, at least from now on, you get that license with a new PC and you never have to buy it again. The same applies to Macs, you get the license when you buy the Mac and you never have to buy it again. OSX has never really been free, just part of the price you pay for your Macbook.

Azurephile   Super Member   Post Author wrote on 06/06/2015 at 06:23pm

That's right, Travis, my mistake.

jdodson   Admin wrote on 06/06/2015 at 10:45pm

"And Jon, at least from now on, you get that license with a new PC and you never have to buy it again. The same applies to Macs, you get the license when you buy the Mac and you never have to buy it again. OSX has never really been free, just part of the price you pay for your Macbook."

It's different with Apple and way less annoying. In fact so different it's not that comparable.

I have free access to Yosemite and Mavericks and can install them on whatever hardware Apple deems appropriate, which as of now includes late model 2007 iMacs(I picked one up the other day). The ability to install the OS is tied to my Apple account and as long as I have internet I can install it.

Windows is different. I purchased a PC that came with a very odd license to Windows 7. It was on a partition so I could install it again. I acquired some media because I wanted all of my hard disk but someone Windows thinks I am pirating Windows 7 even though I own a legit license. Far as I can tell, I have no idea how to install the version Microsoft thinks is correct. This is dumb, I just want to play games.

It's so much easier and less stupid on MacOS and you are right, it's included in the price of the hardware but so was Windows 7 yet one is more annoying and because of that really don't prefer using it.

Travis   Admin wrote on 06/07/2015 at 04:42am

A few things:

I meant from Windows 10 on. You get a license to use Windows with your PC, and you can upgrade to all versions for no charge, just like OSX. Windows 7 doesn't factor into it, that was a different time, before this new upgrade model. BUT the point I was making was only about the price of Windows 10 forward, and nothing to do with the problems and cost of the past versions. It should cost "nothing," the same as OSX, since it's bundled. The annoyance is another thing entirely, but it looks like they're fixing that moving forward since you can easily upgrade for free, and you're able to do fresh installs for free, if you've upgraded from a previous version or if you buy it new, either way. That was a problem in the past and it looks like they're fixing it.

Now the difference is, you CAN buy a PC without that Windows license, or build one. With Macs, you can't. So since every single piece of Mac hardware has that license, they don't bother with any kind of activation. With Windows, I imagine that will still be a thing.

BUT, with Windows 10 forward, you can do a fresh install any time you want without the issue you're talking about.

As for why Windows thinks it's pirated, you could try calling them. They have surprisingly good support for activation. But since you acquired separate media, that may not help you. BUT again, with Windows 10 forward it looks like that won't be an issue.

Also, just as an extra detail about OSX: "The ability to install the OS is tied to my Apple account and as long as I have internet I can install it."-- if you make an ISO you can install it without any use of your Apple account or the Internet. Just boot and install. They do make it crazy easy. I always do this because I might have something get hosed and need bootable media, if the hard drive crashes or whatever. More info if you're interested: http://www.macworld.com/article/2367748/how-to-make-a-bootable-os-x-10-10-yosemite-install-drive.html

An aside: I wish we could edit comments, I've posted this comment like 6 times now in varying detail as I think of more things to add.

jdodson   Admin wrote on 06/07/2015 at 06:10am

If they do like you say then that will fix a ton of the problems I experience with Windows around activation. I wouldn't even mind paying for 10 if that were the last time I'd have to do it.

I do have older versions of MacOS I own on some backup media. I should download Mavericks and Yosimete at some point too I just haven't yet But it would save some bandwidth as I've done it a few times now.

Travis   Admin wrote on 06/07/2015 at 04:31pm

Yeah I find I still do occasionally need to nuke my Mac like I used to have to do with Windows. Stuff just starts dragging. It helps to have that media handy.

But I haven't had to with Yosemite yet. It's great all around. At first I kinda missed the old controls but now that I've gotten used to it Mavericks feels like a toy. Same with the iOS 6 to 7 migration I suppose.

jdodson   Admin wrote on 06/07/2015 at 04:58pm

For me, MacOS started to shine after Lion. So basically anything after that feels natural but yeah, I really do enjoy Yosemite too. smile

Azurephile   Super Member   Post Author wrote on 07/16/2015 at 02:28am

Windows 10 is apparently being released at the end of the month. Is anyone going to jump in and upgrade?

I'm not sure when I'll upgrade. I might end up waiting, yet I may bite right away. I know there are people who often say not to upgrade right away, but it seems as though their experiences differ from mine. I think I jumped right away on Vista and 7, but I think that's in part because I was using them when I was working at my local community college in the IT department. It took me a while to upgrade to 8, but at the time I didn't feel like spending the money to upgrade. Then, I got a new PC and decided to go with 8 and upgraded to 8.1 immediately.

Travis   Admin wrote on 07/16/2015 at 03:14am

I am. Day one! I'm looking forward to it!

Azurephile   Super Member   Post Author wrote on 07/16/2015 at 03:39am

I figured you would. Please keep me informed on how it goes if I don't do the same. You could add here, message me, or create a new Windows 10 post. =)

I'd still like to hear about how you Ghosts decide when to upgrade your operating system, whether it's Windows, Mac, Linux, or whatever. Do you hesitate to upgrade or do you jump in?

Travis   Admin wrote on 07/16/2015 at 03:47am

In Linux I use Arch, which is a rolling release. There are no OS versions, so when a program gets updated, I get it, so I never have to worry about a massive upgrade breaking things.

Mac, I'm in the beta program so I will have been testing the OS on a separate partition, and if I have had no problems in the last month or two with it, I'll upgrade on release day.

Windows, ehhh... in the old days I waited. The mantra was to wait for at least one service pack before upgrading. Since Windows 7 though, it's been crazy stable, fast, and compatible, so I upgrade immediately.

Travis   Admin wrote on 07/16/2015 at 03:47am

That said, you probably remember me installing Windows 2000 on my computer before it was even officially released.

Azurephile   Super Member   Post Author wrote on 07/16/2015 at 03:57am

Yeah, that's a great point in the "debate." Older versions of Windows are pieces of crap compared to Vista and higher. I think people are just remembering the pre-Vista days when the OS wasn't as stable and often crashed with the BSOD. Waiting isn't a bad idea, but then how long do you wait? Until a Service Pack? That's ok, but that could be quite a while and by the time that happens it won't be too much longer before they start talking about the next version. Price has certainly held me back from upgrading my OS, but now with Windows 10, it's free, since I already have 8.1.

I've probably not spent more than 15 minutes in my Windows 10 virtual machine. It looked nice and there wasn't very much that I looked at. One thing about my current OS is that I really don't have any issues with it. I've had a couple that I've managed to resolve, but otherwise it's just about as "perfect" as I can think of. So, I do feel some hesitation there because I don't want to upgrade and then start having a bunch of problems. Although, I've been told that I have a natural skill for tech support/resolution, so I don't doubt that I'd be able to solve any problems I come across or that they'll be resolved in time.

jdodson   Admin wrote on 07/16/2015 at 04:04am

Good to know, thanks Greg.

So if you both are going to upgrade I'd be interested in reading a post about how you like it and how well it works with gaming. Not sure what I want to do yet, so your thoughts of the final version would help.

Azurephile   Super Member   Post Author wrote on 07/16/2015 at 04:12am

I'm sure one of us can create a new post about it. I'm thinking I'd perfer to upgrade just as I did from 8 to 8.1, then I wouldn't have to wipe everything on my single hard drive. I could re-partition it, but I haven't done that on this PC and honestly want to be careful not to erase the backup partition that was set up by Dell. So, if I could do a simple upgrade, then I might not hesitate.

Travis   Admin wrote on 07/16/2015 at 01:20pm

"Older versions of Windows are pieces of crap compared to Vista and higher."

I'd put Vista in the crap. It had some major instability issues at first.

"So, if I could do a simple upgrade, then I might not hesitate."

You can :)

Azurephile   Super Member   Post Author wrote on 07/17/2015 at 12:32am

I loved Vista right away. Being able to actually see what I was typing while I was entering the key for the wireless networks at my old job was a big help! It seemed to me at the time that most people were complaining about it because it looked and functioned a bit differently than XP. There are still those that won't give up XP.

Anyway, here's something new I found, Windows 10 is already finished: http://www.techspot.com/news/61383-windows-10-has-finalized-now-ready-send-manufacturing.html

Travis   Admin wrote on 07/17/2015 at 01:14am

It crashed constantly for me and others I read about, so I'd include it in the crap. But it's a qualified crap. They actually did some major system changes with Vista, and we're still running on those changes with 10. Vista was their biggest departure ina long time, so a lot of hardware just didn't work. It took a while to get all the drivers going. It isn't entirely Microsoft's fault either.

But that groundwork allowed for the stability and performance we've had since.

Azurephile   Super Member   Post Author wrote on 07/17/2015 at 02:00am

Good points. All of that and they've sweetened the deal by making it free to many of us and have decided to change the way future upgrades or updates will occur.

I've noticed a Windows 8+ looking icon in my system tray. It was to sign up to get confirmation that the upgrade is available, etc. So, I went through that and I guess I'm just waiting now.

Travis   Admin wrote on 07/17/2015 at 02:05am

Yeah that kinda reserves you spot so you get it downloading as soon as it's ready.

Azurephile   Super Member   Post Author wrote on 07/21/2015 at 03:40am

I found out that I have the core edition of Windows 8.1, which is what the others are built on (they add on to it). So, I'm wondering if I should upgrade to Pro. I've been mostly using the Pro edition at home, until I got this PC. What do you all think? What edition of Windows are you running and would you upgrade?

Travis   Admin wrote on 07/21/2015 at 04:02am

Does any of this stuff matter to you?


Back in the XP days it made sense to go Pro at home in many cases, but recently it's mostly business and (naturally) Pro users that need the more full-featured editions.

I personally use remote desktop occasionally so I can get into the Win machine if I'm using both monitors for the Mac. But that wouldn't be enough to make me buy the upgrade. I got Win 8 Pro when it was like $25 back at launch, so I'll be sticking with Pro obviously. But I wouldn't feel the need to buy an upgrade from Home to Pro.

Travis   Admin wrote on 07/21/2015 at 04:03am

(Caveat: if it was a laptop, I'd get Pro just for Bitlocker. It's quite nice and built into the OS. But I don't feel the need for full drive encryption on my desktop)

Azurephile   Super Member   Post Author wrote on 07/21/2015 at 04:49am

I use TeamViewer for remote desktop, often when people need me to work on their computers.

You are right, most of that stuff doesn't really matter to me. I think I had 7 Pro installed on the old PC, it'd be interesting if I could use that key to upgrade to 10 and then I'd have a 10 Pro copy to install on this new PC.

Travis   Admin wrote on 07/21/2015 at 02:23pm

Do you still have the old PC? Is it in use? If not, you can probably do what you're looking for there, but if it's still in use you can't. At least not within their terms.

Azurephile   Super Member   Post Author wrote on 07/21/2015 at 07:10pm

Both hard drives on it apparently died, so it's not in use. I haven't repaired nor replaced it for Vinny, yet, I'm not entirely sure he's ready for his own PC again. We had some issues that I hoped not having it would iron out. I probably still have the OS image, backup, and license some where on this computer, since I backed up the old one to this one.

Travis   Admin wrote on 07/21/2015 at 09:04pm

If you plan on using that Windows 7 license again on that computer, you probably shouldn't.

However you could probably wrangle it so you get Windows 10 Standard on that old PC and Windows 10 Pro on the new one, just by upgrading both and swapping the licenses. Be prepared to reinstall on both though.

Azurephile   Super Member   Post Author wrote on 07/28/2015 at 12:12am

Found a cool review in my email: http://www.techspot.com/review/1037-windows-10/

Azurephile   Super Member   Post Author wrote on 07/29/2015 at 05:36am

I wonder when that email is going to arrive. I haven't prepared, but since I'm just going to upgrade I shouldn't need to. I'm looking forward to it, just because it's new. From that review I shared and some of the stuff I've seen in my email, it's the best Windows yet, which is exciting, even though they probably say that about every new version of everything.

Azurephile   Super Member   Post Author wrote on 07/29/2015 at 07:23am

Ok, I decided to right click on the new Windows 10 notification in the Quick Tray and it seems ready. So, check that notification if you want to get started.

Travis   Admin wrote on 07/29/2015 at 03:46pm

I never got that. I confirmed that all the files were there and ready to go but it would never actually tell me it was ready, so I just downloaded the installer from MS and upgraded. So far so good.

jdodson   Admin wrote on 07/29/2015 at 05:19pm

Looks like you can download the Windows 10 ISO here. http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10ISO

Didn't ask me for a key or anything. I like this new direction Microsoft is taking. Going to give this a shot.

Travis   Admin wrote on 07/29/2015 at 06:42pm

You have to go through the upgrade process once, just to prove you have a version installed that it can upgrade from, but as part of that upgrade you can choose to do a clean install. Then after that you never need a product key again, it has some info from your motherboard that it uses to activate.

Azurephile   Super Member   Post Author wrote on 07/29/2015 at 10:55pm

Upgraded this morning. I mostly like it. I like how small the Taskbar icons are now, which gives me more room on my Taskbar. So far, I think I've run into a couple of issues. I was able to resolve most of them with a reboot. One, the old File Explorer slot on my Taskbar was missing it's icon. I couldn't right-click to remove it. I think I managed to get that to work after a reboot. I removed the old icon and added the new. I've had some failed attempts at opening the Notifications window, another issue that seemed to get better by rebooting. The other issue isn't an issue apparently, it's working.

I decided to leave the "accent" color setting alone. This means that it changes often since I chose a slideshow for my background. Oh, and I did use Edge because the free version of Minecraft wouldn't download using Chrome, because it has to connect to the MS Store, via Edge.

Travis   Admin wrote on 07/29/2015 at 10:59pm

I redeemed the Minecraft code in Chrome on my Mac while the Windows upgrade was still going, then just launched the Windows Store to download it. It works well, but I do wish it was full featured.

Travis   Admin wrote on 07/29/2015 at 11:00pm

I said earlier, "Then after that you never need a product key again, it has some info from your motherboard that it uses to activate."

I wonder how that works for virtualization.

Azurephile   Super Member   Post Author wrote on 07/29/2015 at 11:12pm

Hm, Steam isn't letting me Shift-Tab, even though the overlay is checked. Maybe it will work after a reboot.

Azurephile   Super Member   Post Author wrote on 07/30/2015 at 01:46am

*Update* The Steam Overlay is working again. Like my other issues, it seems to have been resolved after restarting it or the game, whichever it was that I did. That "other" issue I mentioned was my keyboard not working completely. The keys that control the sound weren't working, but yet again after a reboot they work fine now. I'm not disappointed, I think these little things can be expected, especially when upgrading your OS to the very latest as soon as it's available. I'm not sure how long the upgrade took as I watched it for a bit and then left it alone and went to bed. I haven't done too much with it yet other than my normal Chrome and Steam stuff. I like how everything looks and I'm satisfied with the changes I've noticed (like the new Start Menu).

jdodson   Admin wrote on 07/30/2015 at 02:39am

So I installed Windows 10 in VirtualBox and WOW is it great. It's a solid upgrade and it handles the new interface well but keeps the old stuff I loved about the classic Windows desktop. If this is the last version of Windows Microsoft ever releases(as that's what they've said) we are in for a treat. I wonder how that will work though, just patch updates or will it be like new versions of OSX? Either way, this is good and after a few patches and bug fixes should be even better.

Azurephile   Super Member   Post Author wrote on 07/30/2015 at 03:04am

Wow, Jon, I didn't expect your enthusiasm. That's great that you gave it a look and it impressed you. I'm looking forward to how updates and upgrades are released in the future. I'm expecting (and perhaps hoping) it will be more like how Linux distros are updated, which I can only assume is close to how Mac does it, too. It does blow my mind that it is free for almost everyone. I wonder what happened to make them change. I wonder if maybe 8 was a serious flop. I guess Microsoft is rich enough now to offer their most popular operating system for free for most users. From what I read, they recieved and incorporated a lot of user feedback for Windows 10.

Travis   Admin wrote on 07/30/2015 at 03:35am

From what I have read, and it still isn't entirely clear, it's going to work kinda like a Linux distro rolling release, where there will be more frequent updates that cover a smaller amount of things. The Windows we use today may look totally different from the one we'll use 5 years from now, but we never really have to do a full OS upgrade. Then when they hit a milestone they'll bump the version, but getting that new "version" is as simple as installing an update. That's how I understand it at the moment, at least.

As for Windows 10 being "free" for most users... eh, kinda. Most users don't upgrade their OS, they just use the one that their PC came with. Making Windows 10 a free upgrade, and giving system tray notifications about it via Windows Update, they get more people on the platform. They're also moving to this new licensing model where you buy a Windows license or get it from your PC manufacturer, and it's supported for life on that hardware. So, if they're retroactively doing that, you *kinda* already bought Windows 10 when you got Windows 7 or 8. But they'll still get most of the money from new PC purchases, as usual. When you buy a PC, a chunk of that money goes straight to MS for Windows licensing, just like a chunk of the Mac purchase is for OSX licensing, it's just the same company in that scenario.

A lot of the things they're doing are with security in mind, and getting everyone on the new platform can help keep things more secure, and hopefully prevent the situation where there are still millions on XP.

And yes, they really used the user feedback, and are continuing to do so. One neat thing they're doing is continuing the Windows Insider program. You've been able to run test versions of Windows 10 for a while now through the Insiders program, but they're extending that to new updates. If you opt into that now, you get a 1GB day-one update with new stuff they're testing for 10. This is a great way to test the waters before launching things.

Jon, how did the licensing work when you installed it in VBox, or did you just not worry about it since you were testing?

Azurephile   Super Member   Post Author wrote on 07/30/2015 at 04:04am

Yeah (about the update releases), that's what it seems like. Perhaps Linux and Mac have had an influence on Microsoft and Windows 10 is bit of a result of that.

You're right (about many things). I don't imagine most people will upgrade their current OS. People seem to be very sketchy about doing so and many of them seem to be afraid of change. They have a lot of anxiety about a new OS, especially right after it's been released. But, yes, MS does get money on new PC purchases and now when people buy a new one with Windows, they've got it for the life of that hardware. Personally, I think it's great because I always thought Windows was expensive.

Security is definitely important to them. I think Vista began to show signs that they had gotten more serious about it. I think many users didn't like the new user access/account control and ended up turning it off. There are still lots of computers out there running XP, which is now outdated and it is important, I think, for people to upgrade. Some people are pretty stubborn about it though.

Thanks for the extra info on the Insider update, I didn't realize that.

jdodson   Admin wrote on 07/30/2015 at 04:47am

They askede to put in my Windows 10 key and I just skipped over that. Then it asked again and I skipped it. Not sure if it's in a 90 day window OR it's just not authorized but still works.

"I don't imagine most people will upgrade their current OS."

I think you are right under the old Windows model where you bought each new version. But this one seems better and people might not buy windows 10 or even upgrade to it on their current PC(I most likely won't) but when they get a new one will get Windows 10. And I am happy to say I won't mind the new version beyond learning se changes.

With that, the Windows 10 install process was shockingly similar to Windows 7. I wonder how similar 10 is to 7 under the hood?

Travis   Admin wrote on 07/30/2015 at 11:51am

Under the hood, it's been *essentially* the same OS since Vista, just heavily optimized since then.

Azurephile   Super Member   Post Author wrote on 08/07/2015 at 10:22am
Travis   Admin wrote on 08/07/2015 at 02:30pm

Yeah I've been saying it's not free :D

And I opted out of Cortana, and never really use any XBox stuff, even solitaire. But for what it's worth, Solitaire on Windows 8 also asked for a premium subscription. But Cortana tracks you just as much as Siri and Google Now because it has to. It needs access to the things it helps you with, obviously.

As for ad tracking, you can opt out of all that if you choose a custom install. Most of it was present in Windows 8 as well.

This is more fear mongering.

Azurephile   Super Member   Post Author wrote on 08/07/2015 at 09:42pm

Let the record show that I do not support fear mongering and that was not my intention by sharing that article. After all, this isn't Fox News, this is Cheerful Ghost! I'm not sure where I saw that article about MS spying on us, but it could have been from the same source. I'm not afraid anyway.

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