Since GameLoading derives itâs story and flow from the developers and games they are building occasionally the pacing suffers as it breaks out of a personal story in favor of a...

So rad man. I'll be listening to this this afternoon! And I keep meaning to get to a PIGSquad event, but still haven't yet. But eventually.
Congrats on your celebritiness!
Those are some good tips in the video. I've sadly become a "Hearthstone Sith." I got disappointed with it because I was hoping for more of a single player game than competing against others. When I earned enough gold, I unlocked one of the single player modes, but it didn't last long enough for me.
I was always surprised by people who played Warlock decks as I thought those were suicidal. I thought all of the decks have good abilities, except for the Warlock. Thus, that is my least favorite. I'm not sure which is my favorite, though. So, kuddos for playing a Warlock deck. Your description helped me realize that the Warlock can obviously be a good deck.
I haven't played Hearthstone since I gave up on it when I last played over a month ago, maybe more. I'm glad it made it to phones and tablets as I thought it would work well on them (at least tablets). I also got the Collector's Edition of Reaper of Souls. I noticed, after playing and reading about Hearthstone, that there were some cards that came along with that. I haven't redeemed them, I never saw a prompt about it, but maybe that's because I started playing the game after RoS.
If you got the Reaper boxes Collecotrs Edition the Hearthstone pack codes are in the box.
If you want them or not I might know someone that can use them
I got the digital edition of the game and CE, not a hard copy.
I've been playing Hearthstone a lot lately. I love the ability to pick it up, play for 5 mins and then put it down. The variety of play is also great. Playing against other people in this game (Greg, I never did comment on your forum post about PvP gaming now that I think about it) is great. The interaction is limited, as you have a limited set of emotes, but you can get a sense of how the other player is feeling through them ("Greetings," "Threaten," "Oops," etc).
My 3 favorite classes to play right now are Druid (because that's what I always played in WoW), Mage and Warlock. I am having a lot of fun with the spell cards. I love just throwing out damage, even when it's to myself at times. And clearing the board of minions is great too. I just love to nuke :)
30 million Hearthstone accounts. That's pretty incredible.
https://twitter.com/PlayHearthstone/status/595619019593416704
Good write up, Jon. It was fun to see your enthusiasm over "new" cards and building to your basic decklist. I'm about 7 wins away from having a shiny priest (need 500 wins in ranked play to make your hero and hero power shiny) and I am level 60 (cap) with priest, druid, mage. So those are my favs and I do play a lot! (As I've mentioned before).
Getting Harrison Jones was a great lucky find! I have yet to get him, but he's been one of my considerations to craft for a while. I try not to get too much card draw in my control decks because I often sit with 5-8 cards in my hand anyways and in a mirror-match, we've gone through all 30 cards and are taking fatigue damage. So, I keep all card draw out of my priest deck actually. But destroying a weapon, drawing cards, getting a powerful guy out... it's a great card.
Always look for cards that do more than 1 thing. Those deathrattle guys are great for example (like the harvester golem). Or the rifleman (battlecry deal 1 or 2 dmg).
You should be able to purchase the expansions with in game gold, so check that out, I think it's like 700 and it adds cards and 1 player mode for a bit. The cards you get can't be received in packs and everyone gets the same ones... they are definitly worth having. Like from Curse of the Naxxaramus or whatever you get a Sludge Beast. Costs 5 for a 3/5 taunt - deathrattle, summon a 1/2 taunt sludge dude... really great.
You have to do the 1-player battles in the expansion to unlock each new card, it shows you what you can get I think... but yeah, check that out before getting packs. Also, try some Arena out, a great way to play with cards you don't have yet.
I'm glad you pointed out the expansions, JaBo, I was thinking of mentioning that to Jon, since he seems to have earned plenty of gold. I earned enough and unlocked the Naxxaramus. I did beat it and I got some cards from it. That was one of the things that majorly disappointed me, though. I was expecting a lot more single-player play with that expansion. Still, I'd say, if you have the gold, they're worth getting. Maybe some day I'll get over my lack of single player disappointment and play some more. Hearthstone really is a great game, in all honesty, and I'm not surprised that it's very popular. As I keep saying, I just wish there was a lot more to the single player aspect of the game.
"You should be able to purchase the expansions with in game gold, so check that out, I think it's like 700 and it adds cards and 1 player mode for a bit."
Greg mentioned that but I went to the store to check it out and it said it cost $24.99 to unlock. That said, if you go to the Solo Adventures then click the expansions you can unlock each wave for 700 gold. So you would recommend the 4 guaranteed cards as opposed to opening 7 packs? That said, in later stages like you say, some of those cards are sick...
Glad I figured out you can unlock those with gold that's incredible, opens up the game to a whole bunch more play.
Greg: They added another expansion Black Rock Mountain and I think they will add a bunch more too. Looking forward to trying those. It's been fun just to play the daily quests against other people in casual mode.
Tonight I unlocked the first part of Naxxramas, the arachnid quarter. Had a bear of a time with the first boss but the others fell quickly. The class challenges were fun and I love the new spider cards. Already replaced some of the cards in my decks with them and really have enjoyed the results.
Have you tried the arena yet?
What's funny, is I finally got my 500 wins on Priest and am a shiny Priest now... but now I feel like I must be working on something else. So, I made 8 different paladin decks and am cycling through them to level him up to unlock golden cards. Level 60 is cap and you unlock the golden versions of base cards on the way up.
Taken from wiki:
1-10
Up to level 10, reaching each even-numbered level will reward the player with a new basic card x 2 for that hero's class. These cards are not obtainable through any other means. These cards constitute half of each class' basic cards.
This makes reaching level 10 with each hero quite important to playing that class, in order to complete the selection of basic cards available to that hero. Once level 10 has been reached, that class' full selection of basic cards is available to the player.
11-60
Above level 10, reaching certain levels will award golden versions of existing basic cards. As they are soulbound, it is not possible to disenchant these cards, making the reward purely cosmetic. These rewards are the only way to gain golden versions of these cards.
Between levels 11 and 50/52, golden class-specific basic cards are awarded.
Above level 50/52, golden basic neutral minion cards are awarded.
So, now that I have Priest at 500 wins, my next goal is to get all my heroes to 60 so I have all the golden base cards.
I have:
Mage, Druid, Priest at 60.
Warrior and Hunter are 44
Paladin and Shaman are 42
Warlock is 39
Rogue is 37
I don't like Rogue lol.
I might deviate to work on getting Druid or Mage to 500 wins at some point, but it's all a slow march.
It's also fun making a full deck list of decks for the same hero. I came up with one of my favorite Priest combo decks this way and I found some fun Paladin combos yesterday doing this same thing.
I'm nowhere near 500 wins or level 60 for any of my classes, but I feel like I've played a lot the past month or so (since it's been available on my phone). Looking through the Naxx card rewards, there's only a few cards I could see possibly playing. For now I'd rather take my chances and just buy card packs (and go to the arena occasionally).
I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I'm too impatient to save up 700 gold lol
Let me see what my levels are. I can say before I check, nothing like JaBo's.
Mage 10, Shaman 22, Druid 13, Paladin 14, Warlock 18, Hunter 15, Warrior 16, Rogue 17 & Priest 11. I played Warrior a bunch when I originally started Hearthstone and have mostly played Shaman coming back to the game.
I have 70 total wins, which I am pretty happy about. Still ranked 25 as I only play casual against other players. Not sure when i'll start playing ranked but at some point I will. Kind of want to improve a bit first.
It turns out that at levels 25 and 24 in ranked matches, losing doesn't set you back, so I've dipped my toe into ranked matches. Right now I'm a 2-star level 24, hopefully I'll make level 23 today :)
And my class levels are:
Warlock 19
Druid 19
Mage 19
Priest 15
Rogue 14
Warrior 9
Shaman 5
Paladin 4
Hunter 1
I definitely stick to the top 4 of my classes lol (Priest is new for me, but I enjoy it, and Druid was my first class to try out, because of my WoW typical characters)
Yeah you don't lose ranks for losing from 20-25. May as well do ranked. You earn new cards backs for getting to rank 20 during a cycle (which is about a month I think). My best rank before they reset me was 7 or 8. I was on a huge win streak. I haven't been able to get there again. I did a surge of arena's this weekend, paying for a few even and in total I had 9 packs to open. I got this warrior card from the packs:
http://i.imgur.com/Nq9qYgU.jpg
And then I got pushed over 1600 dust and I crafted this:
http://imgur.com/yWlgha1
Pretty happy about both those additions for my decks.
Wow, those are both amazing cards!
I've been wanting Lord Jaraxxus for a while, I've lost many a game to him. You can be at 1 health (or 30 health) and when you play him, your hero is replaced by Lord Jaraxxus. You get a weapon that hits for 3 with 8 durability and you get a new hero power. Pay 2 mana for a 6/6 demon. And your current and maximum health gets set to 15.
It's pretty good
I can't wait to get that card now!
It looks like Mal'Ganis is pretty rad too, for the same dust cost.
Yeah, he is, I've lost to him before too, that immunity really forces you to take him out before killing the hero.
I was playing warlock vs warlock the other day. It was turn 5, he had out the demon that has deathrattlle summon a random demon from your hand. I killed it and it brought out Mal'Ganis for him. I bet he was really happy to get that out on turn 5 for free lol... I was holding a Sacrificial Pact in my hand though =]
Interesting article about someone getting a Druid to 500 ranked wins for the golden portrait. At my current rank win ration I should get that golden portrait in 2043.
http://www.pcgamer.com/becoming-a-golden-druid-a-tale-of-obsession/
It does take a long time, I don't remember when they started tracking the wins towards this. It wasn't at release.
Here's my wins on each hero currently for ranked
Priest 500+
Druid 230
Mage 142
Warrior 136
Shaman 74
Paladin 66
Hunter 53
Warlock 46
Rogue 44
That totals 1291. It says I have 1616 Play Mode Wins though. Also, it says My best arena key is 911, but I don't know what that means lol. Ok, I used google. That's my total wins in the arena, my best run is 10 wins.
Let's say for the sake of averages, I have a 50/50 win ratio. Meaning, I've won 1616 games in ranked and lost 1616 games in ranked. For Arena, let's say I average 4 wins with 3 losses. That means with 911 wins it would have taken me 228 arena runs to accrue that many wins which gives me 684 losses. (I'm a little weirded out by that number... that seems crazy to me).
So just in ranked mode, I've played about 3232 games and in arena another 1595. That's 4827 total games for ranked and arena. Let's say each game is average of 10 minutes. That's 804.5 hours (33.5 days) play time.
And that's just in the actual matches, not deck building, not single player missions, not opening packs etc etc.
And 10 minute average might be low, if it's a 15 minute average well, we'd be looking at 1206.75 hours (or over 50 days) played.
The article was dead on about achievables, though. Also, when he mentioned the pro-tip about sticking to one deck while ranking the ladder, that is also true. I bounce from deck to deck a lot and I suffer on the ladder for it. When I locked down a deck and just played and fine tuned that one, that's when I got to rank 7 or 8.
I recently crafted two Ironbeak Owl's for my Hunter deck and they fit in very well. They also happen to be the first cards i've crafted.
http://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Ironbeak_Owl
I've been playing quite a bit of hunter recently as the beast abilities stack very well together. I also picked up two webspinners as achievements for completing the Hunter class quest on Naxxramas tier 2. So far only after completing Naxxramas tier 2 the cards I've enjoy the most are Sludge Belcher, Maexxna, Webspinner & Haunted Creeper.
Looking forward to picking up Mac Scientist, Kel Thuzad, Echoing Ooze and Shade of Naxxramas.
Oh indeed, thos Webspinners are top notch 1-drops. It's so fun getting one of these guys from it: http://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Malorne
Cards I may use in my decks from Curse of the Naxramas:
Haunted Creeper
Sometimes Nerubian Egg
Sometimes Stoneskin Gargoyle
Unstable Ghoul
Sludge Belcher
Echoing Ooze
Shade of Naxxramas
Kel'Thuzad
Loatheb
Loatheb and Sludge Belcher are probably my favorite 2 of the bunch.
I don't get Loatheb he seems way too situational but I could be wrong. How do you use him?
Have you had him used against you?
Let me say, I've lost many a game to someone dropping him after they had a solid board state and I needed to cast some spells.
For me, it has multiple uses. You don't really want to drop him as your only minion if they already have some out, because they'll just take him down and play new minions. No big deal.
But, let's say you have a minion or two out and they don't. Drop him and they now don't have a quick and easy way to deal with all your minions. Sure they could drop a charge minion or a taunt minion, but you could still have spells of your own to help you remove their minions, whereas for a turn, you've fairly effectively blocked them from using spells to remove your minions.
So, it's sort of insurance for a turn. Another good use is when you just need to make sure you're going to be protected from a flurry of spells or big board wipe (mage flamestrike).
It also insanely shuts down some decks that rely on comboing cheap spells.
There's been games where they play Loatheb against me and I'm just like well... pass. He's one of those cards that is hard to really see how effective he is since you don't know what he blocked for you, but you just use him as insurance and assume your opponent has spells in hand to kill your threats. If he doesn't, a 5/5 for 5 isn't the worst.
You'll see people (I've had to do it) still pay the 5 extra mana for a spell too, that's always fun.
Makes sense. I'll think about what decks I might put him in.
I do like that Ironbeak Owl. Very helpful, and I use it often. I've only crafted one card, the Gadgetzan Auctioneer. I cast a lot with Warlock, Mage and Priest, so I plan on using him often. He's a 6 cost card, but with my Summoning Portals, hopefully I can get him out sooner.
http://media-hearth.cursecdn.com/avatars/147/939/131.png (Gadgetzan Auctioneer)
http://gkrage.com/hearthstone-cards/summoning-portal.jpg (Summoning Portal)
If you're wanting a really powerful rare card for Mage, go with Unstable Portal. That card can win you a game or give you enough advantage to win you the game. Getting a random creature that will cost 3 less can be really fun when it gives you a super sweet legendary.
http://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Unstable_Portal
I was able to chain some Arenas this weekend (meaning, went 5-3, 7-3, 4-3, 8-3 and with quests and prize money I was able to just keep doing more arena). This meant that at the end, when I finally ran out of coins (100 left) I had 12 packs to open. Now, I've opened 20 packs in one sitting and not opened a legendary. So, my last couple times have been pretty lucky. Because this time, I opened not one, but two legendaries. The small caveat to that was I had to break one down...because it was one I already had. I had opened one just a minute earlier lol.
http://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/File:Sneed%27s_Old_Shredder(12187).png
Not complaining of course! I'll take that guy and the 400 dust for breaking down the duplicate. In fact, I'm now at 1600 dust again and can craft another legendary (or 4 epics). Not sure what my next target is though, that Old Shredder was probably my next target. There's certainly some good ones I don't have yet, but I'll likely wait until I get an urge for one in a deck. May end up being the other warlock legendary.
Dude, that thing is rad. I've lost to it and want one.
yeah, the randomness is just so hard to plan around. I've seen so many things come out of it from a dumb 0/4 to an 8/8 charge. I've even seen itself come back. Would be fun in a shaman deck using the deathrattle cards it has.
In fact, I through a shaman mech/death rattle deck together at lunch time, here's a fun result lol
http://i.imgur.com/PDBlRRq.jpg
Note, those other two legendaries are spawns from the Shredder
NICE
Picked up Illidan Stormrage from a pack. Looking forward to playing him in my Warlock deck!
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131211224446/hearthstone/images/e/ef/IllidanStormrage.png
I had the Sneed Old Shredder in my last Arena deck. In one game as he died, he summoned Kel'Thuzad, which brought back the Shredder... I wish the game hadn't ended so soon after that, because it would have been fun to see how many legendary cards I could have gotten out!
And just got my butt kicked by Lord Jaraxxus lol
I actually played today for the first time in a long time. I decided to resist the Sith mindset and just tried to play for fun. I may have lost about half or more of the games I played, but I managed to complete my daily quests. So, that was cool. I may jump back in the game from time to time trying to just have fun with it instead of worrying about winning or losing. I would like to collect more gold so I can unlock the other single player parts of the game.
Nice, Shredder is so fun, so is Kel'Thuzad, so many cheap tricks with him to get out 2 copies of him (well, have 1 out and kill it plus bringing it back to life same turn thereby having him resurrect himself again).
I wish there were more replacement hero cards besides Lord Jaraxxus and the Ragnaros one. Going to max of 8 health is too risky, so only Jaraxxus is viable, but it's cool getting alternate speech.
I stole Lord Jaraxxus as a Priest once, that was lots of fun :D
Greg: That's a good way to go about it. I played ranked till I hit 20 and then stopped because I did what I needed to unlock the card back. My skills and cards are not at the level where I do well at ranked beyond that though so I am doing the dailies and playing casual and with friends. For me, that's fun enough and I just unlocked a new Naxxramas tier and beat all the bosses one a time the first go. Totally fun but I expected a bit more a challenge, I guess I got really great Shaman hands.
JaBo: I am two Naxx tiers away from unlocking Kel'Thuzad and can't wait to do it. At my current gold earning clip I should have him in a month or less. If I earn 60 gold per day on quests then I should have 1400 to unlock the last two tiers in 23 days!
With that, the Echoing Ooze and Shade of Naxxramas are also cards I want to incorporate into my decks.
It's 700 gold per tier?
Yeah it is. It's steep when you consider unlocking the Adventure is $25 but 700 isn't crazy. That said, I am still not sure an adventure tier in cards is quite worth 7 packs. That said, some very much are but the Knight Quarter cards aren't that great, which is what I just finished.
5 tiers right? So 3500 gold for the whole thing? or $25
$25 would get you 15 packs for $20, 2 packs for $3, and a draft for $2. SO if you spent $25 you'd only get 18 packs. If you spent 3500 gold, well 35 packs. (or 23 arena runs). I guess that's the price of playing for free though. Doable, but not as effectively.
I feel odd spending money on Hearthstone sometimes just because there's no retained value...but really, I could probably sell my account or something. Not to mention the fact that I play it on multiple devices every single day. It keeps me from buying more games I know I won't have time to play.
Account selling? Not sure how practical that would be, do you have other Blizzard games? I have ... all of them that I know of and selling my account would ... suck :D
I hear you on the perceived value though, so far it's just time played but I do plan on buying stuff. We talked about this last night in the Roundtable(linked on the main page). I sort of look at this online stuff like an MMO, it's around until it's not so don't spend money you will regret if it goes away.
That's very true. If the game were to lose popularity and be shut down then you'd be out money. I'd definitely be more upset about losing the game itself than the money I've spent. It's also cheaper than playing magic online. I started that up a couple times and one of them I learned that you can pretty much do drafts 24/7. But they cost just as much as in real life. The cards are worth $ in real life, but it's harder to cash them out. And if you are good at drafts you can win prizes and do them again for free basically. But I was never good enough for that. I played for one month and spent like $200 doing drafts that month and that's with trading off the good cards I was pulling for more $... it was crazy addicting!
And yeah, account selling would be akin to selling your steam library I suppose. I don't have any of the other games though.
Yeah, I really think this video is really helpful. I became a "Hearthstone Sith" as described in the video and stopped playing. I started playing again recently, though I'm not sure exactly why. I haven't quite figured out the bonus from Diablo III: Reaper of Souls. I got the Digital Deluxe edition, which seems to include three packs of cards. That may be something I opened when I started playing Hearthstone and just didn't pay attention. I don't believe I have any RoS cards, though.
Back to the video, I'm actively working on the recommended mindset, staying calm and not worrying too much about winning or losing. Sure, I try to win, which is great when it happens, but I often lose, but that's ok. Luck is also definitely a factor. I had three dailies when I started playing again, which is great. I wish they'd give you three every day, but apparently it's only one. They can stack up to three, though.
I think my favorite kind of daily is something like I had recently, "cast 40 spells," others are like "deal 40 damage to enemy." Those are dailies I like because I can complete them even by losing.
Today my daily was to win 2 games with the Shaman or Mage. I completed it with the Shaman. I beat a Warlock and then my next opponent quit right after we drew our cards, so I got an instant win, which completed my daily.
I know I have some of the Naxxramas cards. I've created custom decks for every class and I play with those decks. They're not specialized and the game was the only guide I used to create them.
Well, I lose a lot too, it is a lot of luck sometimes. There's a lot of factors to a match and a lot of them are random. Some are deck design, some are timing/knowledge/experience based, and some are random number generator (RNG).
I get pretty upset sometimes when something crappy happens from the RNG and I was about to win but lose instead because my spell did 3 dmg instead of 4-6 that would won me a game. But, the flip happens too and I laugh gleefully at my opponent when he had lethal (meaning was about to swing and win) but he decides to kill my Piloted Shredder (http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/12191-piloted-shredder) and it spawns a taunt minion or something causing him to be short and lose.
I check this site pretty frequently and if you have some questions or want some advise or tips, let me know. My hearthstone name is Nardraug#1711. I'm usually in the 13-17 rank as I don't play a consistent deck and like to play with fun (albeit not the best) combos. I'm also just working on leveling up the other classes to get gold cards unlocked.
I have a lot of cards and deck possibilities, which is nice. If there's some cards you want to see interact or wonder how useful something is, I can maybe show you (goes for anyone on here).
I do play for the achievable goals, such as getting paladin to level 60 or trying to get to that 12 win arena run. But I also just enjoy the interaction of the game. The single-player is my least favorite part, but it's not bad to have a relaxed - untimed match with the computer.
"I haven't quite figured out the bonus from Diablo III: Reaper of Souls."
There were print cards included in the Collectors Edition with codes you could type in for three free packs.
"I check this site pretty frequently and if you have some questions or want some advise or tips, let me know."
I've seen you play JaBo, I am not that good yet That said curious if you would be interested in doing a Google Hangout where we play and talk about the game and what we are doing so people might be able to glean some tips from it. In Hangout you can share your screen and then we can talk about the match as it's happening and why we are doing what we do.
That sounds fine to me. I'm open to anything here. I can cover deck construction - arena - ranked play. This game is just so addicting for me and it's one that is easy to oblige.
I haven't seen any Diablo cards. I've seen some that are similar to spells and creatures, but nothing that seems specifically from that game. I know they exist, though. Here are the specific details about the bonus cards: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/13393435/unlock-expert-card-packs-with-reaper-of-souls%E2%84%A2-3-20-2014 So, for getting the Digital Deluxe edition of RoS, my Hearthstone bonus is three Hearthstone Expert Card Packs, which as I said, I may have overlooked. I remember opening multiple decks and it's been a while, maybe I already opened those packs.
I like how my Battle.net friends list has expanded. I often see at least one of you on while I'm playing RoS or Hearthstone. it's cool to see notifications of what you're doing. Jon was a spectator for one of my matches and I was one for one of his. It's pretty cool to watch your friends play! Jon and I also had an in-game chat, which was great. Cheerful Ghost has definitely expanded my games and parts of games that I probably would not use or play if it weren't for CG. CG helps make gaming more awesome!
I recently had a daily of winning 7 games "in any mode" (it's worth more than usual, I think). So, I decided to see if that included Solo Adventures, which it did and made completing that daily much easier. I decided to re-challenge the Naxxramas bosses. I also noticed that you get a gold card for leveling a class up to 20, so I decided that was a new goal to work on. I also realized that I could get exp in Solo mode, even if I lose. So, I worked on a few classes.
Today I had to summon 40 creatures that cost 2 or less. As I said, that's my favorite kind of daily because I didn't have to worry about winning. Since I was last working on getting my Warlock to 20, I decided to go with that and play. I ended up accomplishing both goals and it was fun. Since I didn't care about winning as much, I didn't worry too much about the cost of using his Hero Ability and put it to good use. So yeah, I like that Blizzard created a fun game that can be fun even if you lose.
I don't think there are any new or unique cards you get that are based on Diablo. It's just the 3 free packs with random cards.
One thing I learned from another thread on her was that you can click the x on the quest (once a day) and it respins your quest and gives you a new one. I love that I've finally learned that. I now try to respin any 40 gold quest so as to maximize getting 60-100 gold quests.
Spectating can be fun. With the addition of the spectate quest, I placed my name on reddit and got a dozen or so invites from people for purposes of always having at least one person online to spectate if need be for that quest. It can add some pressure when someone randomly (they do have to be on your friends list) spectates you and you're playing a crappy deck or doing poorly lol. But it's also fun to be pwning when someone spectates.
I finally decided what legendary to craft and it was the other legendary demon. He has been fun. Got one out turn 3 one game.
Turn 3 - use coin - into voidcaller. Then Sacrificial pact my voidcaller to summon a random demon from my hand (and gain 5 life).
A card I'd recommend saving up dust for is the faceless manipulator guy. He's epic rarity, so that's 400 dust a pop, not too bad. He lets you copy any minion for 5. So, even if you don't have powerful legendaries... you can copy your opponent's =] It copies just as they are, so if they are damaged, it'll copy that, if they are buffed up, it'll copy that.
Jon - This week is busy with my mother-in-law visiting from San Diego, but I should be available after this week to set up something up on Hangout.
Card games are my favorite genre of game I think. I devote a lot of time each day/week to both MTG and Hearthstone and I still look eagerly at other card games lol. I think the combination of deck building strategy, playing strategy, luck of the draw, and the quick interaction of it all is just super designed for my tastes. I guess I enjoy player vs player (pvp) games too.
I knew you could respin your daily quests. I think I read some where that doing that when you get 40's to get something better is a good strategy. I should put that into practice. I'm familiar with the Faceless Manipulator.
A few Hearthstone news bits I didn't want to spin into a new post:
Blizzard is hinting a new Warrior character for the game. The said they won't add new classes(bummer) but they are considering a new Warrior character. I wonder if this will change the Warriors ability?
http://www.pcgamer.com/blizzard-is-teasing-a-new-hearthstone-something/
Heroes of the Storm and Hearthstone are getting some free DLC tie ins as if you get to level 12 in Heroes of the Storm you get a Heroes cardback and if you get 100 wins in Hearthstone you get a special Hearthstone mount in Heroes.
http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/blog/19529839
I am level 7 in Heroes of the Storm so I guess i'll keep grinding away till I get that cool new cardback.
They are geniuses at this kind of marketing. I'd love to see that expand. Unlock Heroes characters/items/mounts or Hearthstone cards for getting a level 70 character in Diablo 3, something else unlocked for every 100 paragon levels, completing the storyline in each Starcraft 2 campaign, winning 100 multiplayer Starcraft games, etc.
That kind of tie-in is amazing for players, and even better for them since they make more money.
They really are. Heroes of the Storm isn't a kind of game i'd normally play but due to this and the fact it's free and in Battle.net I am playing it and it's a lot of fun. Even the online multiplayer part is really fun and so far, I haven't seen any toxic players at all.
Here's a link to some other Quests too, some are hidden until you complete them:
http://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Quest
For instance, when you acquire all the Pirate cards from the classic set, you'll get 2 free Captain's Parrots cards.
Yeah, I've looked at that page before.
I may have over looked it, but I didn't see anything about rewards you get for leveling your classes. I found out that you get gold cards by reaching level 20. Then, you get another reward by reaching level 23, which is much sooner than I expected.
I remember seeing that you could buy the extra Solo Adventures stuff and they're really not expensive. I used 700 gold to buy the Naxxramus one and I'm saving up for the next one. I read a strategy of saving gold for the Arena, but my self-confidence in the game isn't too high, so I don't think I'm really ready to gamble my gold with the Arena. I did go in once for free (your first time is free) and won either a couple of cards or packs. I think I had two wins.
Re-rolling quests makes me a little nervous because I don't want to get a "win 5 games" one. If I always had the "win 7 games in any mode" quest, I'd be quite happy!
The Win 7 games quest is a higher gold count so I wouldn't reroll that either. The re-roll strategy is pretty solid, reroll at 40's or under until 60 or above the complete it. If you have 3 40 quests, complete one. I think that's the gist anyway. Oh and i'd add the, if you get the free pack thing, open it
Yesterday I was sick, so I barely played, so I didn't complete my daily which was "win 3 with any class." Today's daily was "win 5 with Druid or Hunter." I didn't re-roll, but I noticed that every win I got went towards both dailies, since I was using my Hunter. Completing those, I was just 10 gold away from 700, so I went and got another win, since I was one away from 10 more gold. So now, I've unlocked the 2nd quarter of Naxxramus.
I've been enjoying the game and having fun with it again. I'm surprised by how many wins I got today (at least 6), which makes me feel pretty good.
This is a game where luck seems to be clearly visible, at least I see it that way. I still think of the things mentioned in this video and all of that has helped me enjoy the game again. Sometimes networking issues happen. I've had quite a few games where my opponent wasn't really there, left, or got disconnected. I've been disconnected during a match at least once. Opponents don't seem to like to let you win, either. If they are losing and they can see an end for them in sight, they will often concede. This is something I do not do.
Initially, my problem with the game was that I wasn't doing very well and I didn't like competing with others. That vision has disappeared, finally. I'm not always so focused on winning, it just depends on what daily quest I've been given. Additionally, I pretty much don't go into "Play Mode" unless I'm working on a daily that requires it. Having ones that don't require me to win most certainly relieves me of the pressure of winning. If I don't have to win, I don't try so very hard to do so, I pretty much try to accomplish my daily. I wonder if others play this way or if pretty much everyone plays to win.
I was also very glad to find out that I could get golden cards just by leveling up my heroes and that I could do so in the single player mode. This has certainly lead me to play and enjoy the game more.
I also think opponents are usually pretty nice and I wonder if that's just how they are or if it's because the game doesn't necessarily allow you to be "mean." Sure you could emote a threat/taunt or whatever, but generally the emotes are limited . People often use the "well played" one. I pretty much always use that one at the end of a match, especially if my opponent did play very well.
What is your experience like? Do you notice any of the things I've mentioned? Do you play similarly (not always focused on winning)?
"This is a game where luck seems to be clearly visible, at least I see it that way. I still think of the things mentioned in this video and all of that has helped me enjoy the game again. Sometimes networking issues happen. I've had quite a few games where my opponent wasn't really there, left, or got disconnected. I've been disconnected during a match at least once. Opponents don't seem to like to let you win, either."
I think you are right, the game does have a fair amount of luck to it no question. In fact recently i've been losing WAY more than I did before. Before i'd be able to win about half or more of the time, lately it's been way worse. So I had to sort of look at what other people had in their decks for the classes I played, see how effective that was and incorporate it if it makes sense. Doesn't ensure a victory but I've been starting to win again which is nice.
"I also think opponents are usually pretty nice and I wonder if that's just how they are or if it's because the game doesn't necessarily allow you to be "mean.""
It's hard to tell, but the limiting part of communication does help people seem nicer. Sometimes people can "taunt" you by doing something particularly skillful or wiping out your minions then they "apologize." That seems to be particularly passive aggressive/dick-ish and I squelch people for that. I don't think rubbing a good move in someones nose is good sportsmanship and avoid it. I usually just send two messages to the other player "Hello" at the top of the match and "Well played" at the end. Sometimes, if they do something cool against me or something I haven't seen before I'll send them a "well played" but beyond that it's just the standard two hello and good game at the end. I try and focus more on the game because if I get wrapped up in them being annoying or whatever, it throws off my game.
Lately, I'm seeing more disconnections or opponents leaving or quitting before the match really begins or before I get a chance to defeat them. I'm feeling so much better about this game after watching that video and playing with those tips in mind. Sometimes I feel like I'm a good player and sometimes I feel terrible. Sometimes I make mistakes and sometimes it seems my opponents do, too, as they'll squelch a "sorry." Sometimes they'll even do that after doing something like defeating a whole row of my minions.
I think quite a bit of success in this game depends on what cards you draw first and what cards you continue to draw. I think (here's a tip) that at the beginning of a match, it's really important to make sure you have in your hand at least a couple of cards you can play relatively soon. Otherwise, you're going to be stuck for the first part of the game not being able to play what's in your hand. This has happened to me in all game modes.
I agree, I think the limited communication makes people seem nicer and less mean. In my experience, people have usually been quite nice. It's cool seeing a "well played." People seem to be like me and they'll say that at the end of a match. I almost always do. I haven't run into any of the a-holes you mention. I've been taunted before, but that's just the hero's words.
I've been re-rolling my dailies when I get them, hoping for the big one. It doesn't always work and sometimes I feel like saving my daily for the next day so that I can re-roll, but I tend to just play what I get after that re-roll. Today I re-rolled a 60 and got a 40, but that's the gamble you take with that feature.
I'm also curious if any of you have faced an opponent more than once. I'm sure I have, which I find fascinating because I know there are very many players world wide. Yet there have been a few times where I recognized my opponent from a previous match.
Still, once I complete my daily quest, I jump into single player mode. That might not earn me much gold, but it allows me to continue to level up my heroes and not feel the pressure of playing against someone else. Some of the AI opponents are tough, many of them are unique and require strategy, but some of them can be fun.
I think the first time I was able to afford a pack of cards (with gold), I bought at least one. Then, I found out about the extra single player unlockables, so I've been saving my gold to purchase those. I'm still working on Naxxramas. Most recently, I unlocked the Military Quarter.
Have any of you unlocked other parts of the game? If so, which?
I don't think "sorry" after a badass move is necessarily taunting. I legitimately feel bad for doing things like that in MtG sometimes, but I'm not going to hold back on people.
Travis: That's a good thought, maybe not everyone is the way I describe. But some may be, still it's good to consider that not everyone does that.
Greg: I've unlocked all of Naxx except the final quarter. Should unlock it in another week.
I've been wondering why I haven't seen you in these conversations, Travis. Do you play? Why does it seem like you've been missing out on the action?
I agree that "sorry" after a badass move isn't taunting, but one it is one example of how seemingly nice people seem to be.
I have played Hearthstone a bit. For me, most of the fun of card games comes from playing in person with people, and Hearthstone takes that away. It's fun, and fantastic for what it is, but I'd rather be playing other types of games, generally.
Actually, I find the "sorry" after a good movek to be incredibly insulting. Maybe they do feel genuinely bad, but I seriously doubt it lol. This is a game where the point is to kill the other player, not to kill nicely lol. But that said, it doesn't happen often and I quite enjoy the game.
I just realized that there isn't any reward for the Tavern Brawls I've won. For some reason I thought it was going to have a similar reward structure to the Arena (more rewards for more wins), but I see I was wrong. And reading around the internet, it sounds like Blizzard didn't want people to feel like they *had* to play it, which I understand. I already miss playing as Blackrock bosses
I just unlocked the final Naxxramas tier. Took about a month of collecting gold to do it so it's nice to have finished. Now I am thinking about how to incorporate Kel Thuzad, Echoing Ooze and Shade of Naxxramas into my decks.
I finally saved up for the first Blackrock Mountain tier. It was fun to play through, and the 2 class challenges were unique, but pretty easy. I'm looking forward to seeing what tomorrow's brawl will be :)
One thing that's been bugging me lately playing against other players is when they rub in victories. And by rubbing it in I mean not finishing me off, but playing every card they have before killing me. If you have enough damage available out to kill me, I don't want to sit around waiting for you to put out all your other minions, kill mine, and use all your buffs before finishing the game.
Maybe it's just me being a sore loser, but when I win, I feel that the proper way is to do it quickly. Sort of an unwritten rule in my head :)
Adam, I can definitely see your perspective on that. I think it shows how even limited communication can be open to interpretation. As for what's been bugging you lately, you gain experience from doing different things like killing a minion, killing an opponent, and playing a card. So, in a way it may be worth it to take a few extra moves to gain some extra experience instead of moving in for the straight kill. Here is my resource: http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/284t1a/how_leveling_works/
That's great, Jon! Since you mentioned incorporating new cards into decks, I'm still left with wondering how and when you guys decide to re-customize a deck. It's been a while since I've done it and I've earned a bit of cards since then. I should probably just go ahead and do it. What do you suggest?
Ok, I admit I didn't know the exp from playing cards/killing minions, so I'll rethink my stance on that. I still would rather someone just finish the game, as when we're up in levels, that 6 or 9 more exp doesn't seem like it would make much difference.
As far as making new decks or incorporating new cards, if you have a deck you like, but a card you want to try, sometimes I'll just find a card that has the same cost to exchange out. Working through Blackrock, different bosses forced me to create new decks to counter what they were doing (I had to make a deck with no taunt, and almost all my decks depend on a lot of taunts). This could help put you in the mindset of deck rebuilding. Also the Arena is a great way to experience cards/styles you would normally not play (also the Tavern Brawl potentially).
Well, I do understand and can certainly agree with you. Thanks for the tips. Today I'm getting slaughtered with my Shaman, so I might try to customize that deck again. I think I last customized my decks after facing some of the Naxxramas bosses, but it's been a while since then and I've played more of them multiple times. I like unlocking the Class Challenges because they give me a chance to play with what I call "not-my-cards." =)
I sort of wish there was some other chat available, because in a sense it creates faceless bodies you can be as rude to as you want.
I gave someone a well played after a match and the guy friend requested me. I accepted to hear what he had to say. He basically was a sore loser and asked why I said well played after that match when I beat him by getting lucky draws, then he calls me a moron and defriends me.
I've also had ppl add me after a match just to talk about how crazy the match was or how good it was. That's more typical.
As far as emotes go though, they can be read so many ways. I too get frustrated when my opponent is winning and rubbing it in by emoting things like "sorry" or "hello" and I actually prefer if they threaten because it just feels more appropriate than a snarky "sorry"
Conceding at the end of a match happens a LOT. I do it, my opponent does it, it's just normal. Sometimes when you know it's over, you just want to move to the next match. I do let my opponent swing for the win most times, but when they start playing other cards that they don't need, I just concede.
Now I do that too sometimes, if the match was really close, sometimes I want to show them that the cards in my hand would have easily killed him even if he managed to deal with my other threats. But I do it quick and just throw it out there and quickly end it. I don't want to be that guy that's showboating and killing his board OR even worse, the very worst kind of a-hole is the one that sits there almost dead with you almost dead and if it makes it to your turn then you can win. But they sit and sit pondering their cards and doing dumb little things and then when the turn timer starts they finally fireball you or some stupid crap. I HATE the slow-rolling. That's the worst for me lol.
I feel like not having chat leads to people treating their opponents like faceless robots more often. If you could chat, maybe people would be nicer. Maybe not.... lol.
I've had a few people try and friend me after a match, but I haven't because well I was kind of afraid of what you mention but now I never will friend anyone that way
I like conceding at the end of a match too if they are not going to go for the quick kill. And yeah, killing this and that or casting extra spells might help with someones level but that's not a big deal to me. I just want to play matches for, mostly, gold dailies. So if I am not winning i'm not getting closer to my dailies so i'd prefer people kill me quickly than the slow death.
Overall I enjoy the Hearthstone emote system over a normal chat. I know when I play my friends in real life my banter is more like "OH FUCK" and "I HATE YOU" and "SON OF A BITCH" than anything nice. I am not being mean, I am having a ton of fun and we enjoy the game it's just that I am so into the moment that I want to be there and talk that way and if a random person could see that, I bet they'd think I was a dipshit. And I may very well be one, but it's still fun to talk that way with friends
Make sure to get to at least level 20 on ranked for this cool new card back.
http://us.battle.net//hearthstone/en/blog/19808339
I might actually use this one.
Today was the first time I conceded and I did it twice. Both times, I was near my end and my opponent would have had me if they had gotten another turn. I did this precisely for the reason some of you stated and that was to save time. I know the last time I did it, I didn't concede on my last turn until I played a few cards, to get some extra experience points.
I also got lucky and won my Tavern Brawl match because my opponent "left." This was one of those occurrences I come across every now and then. My best guess as to why this happens is networking issues, a player may have idled or been disconnected some how. Although, it's also possible that (in these instances) the opponent left after not being happy with the cards they were starting out with. I actually think that's happened to me once.
Your opponents do leave some matches right as they start. One thing I know happens is people sand bagging their rank to increase their chances at winning matches. So instead of going higher on the ladder, they'll concede matches to lose rank to 20 and then play against easier opponents.
I have some fun screenshots to post of a couple matches gone crazy.
http://i.imgur.com/yDVOcDN.jpg
It's a little greedy, but so fun when you pull something like this off
This next one, you can see he was at 4 life while I still had effects going off (also, notice the turn timer has reached the end... it stayed there for a while because A LOT of effects were stacked up)
http://i.imgur.com/PBheUwk.jpg
And then the final result. He had a 2/8 defender out before all that started happening that had to get mowed down by my shadow boxers first too.
http://i.imgur.com/WcB1u2N.jpg
He had 4 mana...
I need to fraps or record one of these combos going off... I almost won like this on turn 3 yesterday, but my opponent had a 4/5 taunt out that I couldn't quite get around.
Wow! I still haven't played any ranked matches, so I'm still at 25.
Losing ranked matches does you no harm until level 19 (then you can only fall back to level 20), plus you get a new card back when you end the month at level 20 :)
Speaking of card backs, is it possible to change these on the mobile game? I've not found a way to do that, and I've not installed it on any computer yet.
Adam: Yep, they moved it to the place where you build your deck. You now pick the card back per deck.
I just played a guy that purchased the Medivh hero. Medivh starts with an amazing animation as the birds swoop in and away and he shows up. It's really cool and somewhat intimidating.
That said, I pulled out a win and with my Warlock deck which I just started playing with today. After I bought out Kel Thuzad he (rightfully so) started focusing on it but I had taunt minions and fully stacked board. He killed Kel but I got the win.
Oh and the final cards you get from Naxx in Kel Thuzad, Shade of Naxx and Echoing Ooze are superb. If anyone is saving gold to get through an adventure, Naxx is the ticket. I use quite a few Naxx cards in all my decks.
I've played against Medivh once. Yeah I think the Shad of Naxx is pretty good.
I decided to try ranked matches. I have one star! That means I got one win, doesn't tell you how many I lost. Hahahaha
The new season cardback revealed:
http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/19809918
Cool! I was impressed with myself because I decided to give Ranked matches a try. I ended up getting to 19 in just a day or two. So, I won a card back, which is a nice change. I've seen some nice ones out there.
Here's to add to the topic of player communication.
Setting. Arena. Guy just lost on turn 6 (he had 5 mana to my 6). He instant friend adds me... I know what to expect. He adds me and I see his status as collecting arena rewards, so this knocked him out.
https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/11951242_10207825357971221_8586269260636546518_n.jpg?oh=bc05d6904406d75a160e472de1ccb186&oe=567AF865
https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11903931_10207825358331230_4961200851694721159_n.jpg?oh=b10e5eeb3e64ba9ace2a3186a0a21b5d&oe=56788524
Some people are just bitter a-holes lol
holy crap. I've not run across anything like that.
I've not run across anything like that because I don't friend people after a match. Some people are so passive aggressive with the taunts I can't imagine friending people to be worth it for the chance it could turn out good.
I've been getting to the point that i've been saying "well played" at the top of the match and if they get snarky with the taunts, muting and then saying "well played" or "thanks" at the end.
Good sportsmanship is lost with many gamers and if you can't take a loss as a legitimate loss then I am going to say you are going to have lots of problems in life in general. Can you even imagine this person talking about their job or relationship? My God, the horror
Yeah, that's exactly my thought, I want to make a mini-series based on people playing a game in real life, but talking like they would if anonymous on the internet... I think it'd be funny as shit and point out just how dumb people are.
But ya, as I said, I knew this guy was probably going to be a dick when I accepted. I was ready for it and I didn't get upset over what he said, it amused me. I like that over the passive aggressive spam taunting or slow playing a win.
It annoys me, which throws me off my game a bit which is why I don't accept friend requests from matches and aggressively squelch. Since i've done that it's been way better. I should just start a match by squelching, might not be a bad idea.
One recent match I was going against a very well constructed Warlock deck(this player either spent more money and time in the game than me) VS my Shaman deck, it's not my strongest but I love it a lot. It was one of the longest games i've played and I damn near killed them a few times. When he dropped Lord Jaxxarus I still got him down to 8 life, but couldn't pull the win. I beat back a Mal'Ganis and other back-o-trick Warlock cards.
When he finally had me it was taunt gloat city. I wanted to be like "dude you just beat a free to play player with a fairly standard Shaman deck, but not by much." LOL people.
haha right, it's like the Ducks beating the Beavers... you don't get to gloat afterwards... the Ducks are way stronger of a team right now. But if you lose or even come close... yeah, I feel yah.
Ppl are dumb
That said the other day I beat someone with a gold hero portrait and that felt like the best thing in the world. They were great and had a very strong deck. I am nowhere close to a gold hero portrait!
Yeah, I hate losing priest matches because I have a gold portrait. or like, if I throw out 5 legendaries and lose and they didn't play a single one, I'm like awesome, I suck lol
Hahaha, yeah!
Clash of Heroes is fun, but I don't know that I'd compare it too closely with Puzzle Quest. Clash is built on a match-three system, but the combat is much more active, and the strategy deeper than that of PQ. I love both of those games, but they play very differently.
Have you played the Legend of Grimmrock games? I was interested in Might & Magic X, too, but the reviews turned me away. Most people are saying the Grimmrock games are a more polished set of that turn-based, first person RPG.
I haven't. The name wasn't familiar, but upon looking it up, I do remember checking it out a while back. I think what didn't have me pursuing it was that it's all in a dungeon (it seems). It reminded me of Wizardry 8 - which I did play a bit of. I like the idea of having a full world to explore.
This is the review that convinced me I should try M&M-X:
Recommended
71.8 hrs on record
Posted: January 12
As someone who bought MM-1 off the shelf way back in the day, and have played every game in the series other than 9, the mixed reviews made me hesitant to jump in. But picking up the deluxe version (includes MM6) on sale I jumped in, and have been pleasantly surprised.
Reading other reviews, I can relate to a lot of the pros/cons cited, but for me things other people found as cons (combat, grid movement) were very much pros for me. I think what this game does well, it does very well, but it may not be to everyone's taste.
MMX strips out a number of features that existed in 6-8 in particular, but ultimately that makes MMX much more of a tactical game than its predecessors. In those games in most environments you could easily exploit the strength of ranged combat and the opportunity to toggle in/out of turn-based combat to kite. I may have, at times, even exploited running out of dungeons to avoid a fight or having to reload in those earlier MM games - that doesn't work here.
Kiting in this game is only at all possible with certain class combinations, and the 'ambush' nature of many encounters and the inability to move with an enemy already in melee range make that impossible. MMX will require you to rest, and use potions, and buff/debuff. If you open a door in a dungeon without saving or resting first, you'll probably regret it. And AFAIK you can't leave an area while in combat to exploit out of the fight.
As for character creation, I'd agree that the options for any individual character are not deep (which may hamper your RP enjoyment), but party selection itself is imo a moderately complex tactical game. The variety of options for party composition are deep. 12 classes and 4 races to choose from, and you're almost certain to have to forgo something you really want in your party (whether a race, or a buff, or dps combos).
Puzzles are pretty good on the whole, story is meh (but personally I don't think plot has ever been high on the list of reasons to play MM), and the skill system is true to its predecessors while offering a variety of small tweaks/improvements.
As for being one-shot, that can happen, and generally for 2 reasons: 1) you wandered into an area too high for your party level, or 2) you really needed to get your buffs on.
If you aren't completely turned off by the notion of a turn-based, tactical RPG where there's more focus on the complexity of party creation and skill progress, for me that has been a real steal, and makes me very willing to consider paying full price if they release a follow up. Will you have to save/reload a lot even on normal difficulty? Yes, but for me that's been part of the charm - progression in this game feels like an actual achievement.
Isn't it fantastic? I was so blown away. It perfectly replicates that nostalgic NES feel.
It really feels like a lost treasure, rather than a new game. I got a similar feeling from FEZ, but Shovel Knight has that sweet 8-bit sheen to it. Such good fun!
Really is.
Cinemassicre did a recent video on the Battle Toads XBone crossover: https://youtu.be/rrSbdeW3_hI?t=430
I started playing it again on Sunday night. Because it had been so long, I decided to start over from the beginning, so I just got to the second half today. So far so good; no guide yet, but I'm not very far in, so we'll see.
We are getting to the point where I can't play new games :(
Same here. I don't meet the minimum. Looks like a Ps4 purchase. Say what you will about consoles; you never have to deal with that stuff.
Well yeah, but the PCs that could run last gen's games were around at the beginning of the generation too. My meager PC spilled over into this generation too, so I think I got a good run.
Since I have a GTX 690, I "Googled" the GTX 690 vs. the 760 and the 980. It seems to be better than the 760, but the 980 seems to be better than it. My experience with GTAV on the PC has me wondering just how great my PC is. It ran Skyrim just fine on Ultra settings, but I've had to do some research aka "Googling" to get GTAV running more smoothly. I ended up changing a couple of settings.
I am interested in the PS4. In fact, I was very tempted to buy one when I noticed that there's a Final Fantasy Type-O HD bundle. That game also has a demo for FFXV. GTAV for the PS4 made me tempted to get one, but I didn't bite on that one. My PS3 is still running, even though it shuts down sometimes on its own. It's an older model, but not the oldest. I haven't really been gaming on it, but my son has. I've done some media streaming from the PC to the PS3, which was really great. I think I've been waiting for FFXV or FF-whatever and the new Kingdom Hearts to get a PS4. I think I've also been waiting on my PS3 to die, which I'm surprised hasn't happened yet despite it's issue. Still, I think Batman: Arkham Knight might be another game that might make it worth getting a PS4 to play it. Still, I'm sitting on it, not sure when I'll get one, though I imagine I will eventually. I think I've pretty much decided not to get anymore PS3 games, although I honestly can't think of any PS games that I want anyway. That seems to ultimately be the reason why I haven't bought a PS4 yet.
I haven't considered getting an XBox 360 or One. I had the original back around when it was released and loved it. I think the GTA games for it were great, especially since you could use your own music in-game that you had stored on it. Eventually, I let it go and only recently bought another for the Buffy the Vampire Slayer game. That's the only game I have for it now, I'm not sure if I'll get anymore for it. So, some time, I guess I just lost interest in the XBox, perhaps especially due to issues the 360 had (ring of death).
The only current generation console I have is the Wii U, which I've probably had for about a year and I'm honestly really happy with it. I have a few games for it, one of which is Hyrule Warriors, which I've spent a lot of time playing. I have all but the latest (and last) DLC for it. Unlike the other consoles, it's backwards compatible with it's previous generation (the Wii), which I think makes it a little more valuable. I think the Wii U is also the cheapest of the new generation. It's probably also the most unique, just like it's predecessor.
I know the PS4 is doing some kind of streaming service for older PS games, but I don't know much about it. I recently saw an article that stated all the games on the service, but I didn't read it.
What are your thoughts on the current generation consoles?
The PS4 is the bees knees! I've had one since the system launched, and I've only grown to like it more and more. I was a huge fan of the XBox 360, mostly because of the then superior XBox Live service, but Microsoft started making decisions with the UI and the whole spirit of the system started to change. What once was a raw gaming rig, was slowly turning into a playground for advertisers. I hated it, and began to migrate my library over to the PS3. Because of that transition, I never really gave the XBox One any serious thought (although, now that Halo 5 is on the horizon...), especially because of how poorly Microsoft handled the presentation of that machine prior to release. What a nightmare.
Spec-wise, the PS4 is technically more powerful than the XBox One, but I've heard that it's not really noticeable during gameplay, unless you have the systems running side-by-side. Resolution and frame-rate on the XBox One seem to take a hit, whereas the PS4 gets closer to PC quality performance. But then you have to take into consideration the exclusive games. The PS4 may be a beast, but it ain't gettin' the Halos. I feel like they make up for it with Uncharted and games like Bloodborne, Last of Us, etc. The PSN (Sony's counterpart to XBox Live) has grown tremendously, and is much more stable and feature-rich than it used to be on the PS3.
I've only played on the XBox One very briefly. If you are a current fan of the XBox environment, you probably won't be disappointed there. However, I prefer the simplicity of the PS4 interface, the Dualshock 4 controller (an amazing improvement over the DS3, and, in my opinion, the best console controller out there), and the library of games out now, and lined up to release in the future.
If you have any specific questions, please feel free to ask!
That's great, scrypt, thanks for sharing! What you said kind of ties into my "somewhat of an issue" with gaming lately. FPS games are apparently extremely popular, yet I don't have any interest in them. I seem to see mention of them frequently. I know what Halo is and I have played it, but I wasn't very good at it, especially against friends. I feel like my gaming "scope" is quite limited. I think it's also gotten even more limited in recent years. I remember years ago when I felt like a very serious Final Fantasy fan, but after a while that seems to have faded a bit. After playing Minecraft and Terraria a bit, I started looking for more games that were similar, but I haven't run into many.
So, I think my lack of interest in Halo and other FPS games has also made me less interested in the new XBox consoles. I haven't even played on a 360 or One, so I don't have any experience with them. I haven't played on the PS4 either, for that matter.
I'm glad you mentioned the controller because this is where I feel weird. I've been playing GTAV on the PC with an XBox 360 controller and I absolutely love it (using the controller). I think it's weird since I don't really have an interest in the XBox consoles.
What do you think about the PS streaming service (PS Now, I think it's called)? I did take a look at that article I mentioned, but didn't really see much of anything for me. The reason being my limited gaming scope and knowledge of the many games that are on it and out there generally. I did notice that some of the games I own are on that list (like Batman and Final Fantasy games).
I think it's weird since I don't really have an interest in the XBox consoles.
It isn't, not at all. That controller is amazing whether you want the console or not.
Seriously! I think that if I play this new Batman game on my PC I will probably certainly use this awesome controller of mine.
Regarding PS Now, I'd say don't let that factor into your decision. Unless you have very fast bandwidth, you can't even use it. I have no idea what the quality is like, since my internet speeds are much too slow, but the rates (prices for the service) alone make it a turn off, for me. If you want to play PS3 games, keep your PS3 and go find used games for significantly cheaper.
That explains why your part in the round table discussions is so laggy. I still have a PS2 and don't plan on getting rid of my PS3. That is a good recommendation, though. I believe I have a fast Internet connection, but it's not fiber.
The game is out and I still haven't bought it. It's probably because I'm already playing something and I have games to play from the Steam Summer Sale. Also, I've seen news that the PC version of this game has been plagued with bugs. It was apparently pulled from the store until some of the bugs were fixed.
So, has anyone jumped in the game yet? Why or why not?
Not on PC. You can't even buy it. It was such a hack job they pulled it from Steam.
I must be losing my mind. I just said what half of your previous message was. I didn't see that detail at all on the first read.
Yeah, I wasn't sure if they put it back, I haven't seen anything about it recently.
Right now I am getting an error going to the Steam page for workshop paid content. If you want to read it, check this Google cached page.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:4rm-3WjvEmQJ:steamcommunity.com/workshop/aboutpaidcontent/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Assuming that isn't just a site problem, that could be a very good sign. Maybe they're taking it down or modifying it.
I think what Valve is doing is ultimately good. We have all seen how people can make skins for games like Team Fortress 2, DoTA 2 and CS Go and how well people seem to love that stuff. It seems similar here but implemented in a way that, for now, people don't seem to like.
I like the idea of people making some content for a game and selling it if they want. I also like the idea of someone giving away content for free if they want. I don't mind a split going to the people that made the game but 40%?
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--xTHJWLch--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_320/18lme3q8hy4l3jpg.jpg
I know Valves 30% split is sacrosanct but they could always double split that with Bethesda so 15% Valve / 15% Bethesda. Regardless, i'd like to see more go to the mod creators.
I think the other thing that people don't like is that the game they loved is now broken for them w/o paying. That is pretty bullshit but I understand why they did it. They could have done nothing, which is fine but Skyrim is such a huge mod game that starting with it made sense. They could have said everything in the workshop is free and all NEW stuff could optionally be paid but that would mean some creators uploading duplicate mods, which isn't great. OR they could have said, everyone that had this mod gets it for free and new folk need to pay, which would get around your broken game issue.
Regardless of how this shakes out(I actually trust that Valve will eventually do the right thing here) I don't find the idea of some creators charging for user generated content to be offensive. The thought that someone could make a bit of money releasing things people love seems like a good idea to me. Valve is becoming a store for traditionally generated content as much as for it's users and whereas this step is a bit strange it's nice to see.
Also if most modders find this offensive there are websites where they can release mods for free if they want. This isn't a terrible solution as then it puts a lot of importance on federating PC gaming which is really being owned by Valve right now. I love Valve but it's good to have a healthy ecosystem that isn't one silo.
I don't think the program is a bad idea, I think using it on an existing game and destroying the mod community of that game is bad. It's not about letting people make money on mods, it's about significantly changing the workings of a product we've already bought.
I think that is a good point. The mod community still exists though right? I mean, maybe some people are leaving it over this but it will still mostly be around? That said, destroying your save is bad and yeah, doing this to something already out is less than stellar.
Maybe they should have hit up Rockstar and done it for GTA V.
Yeah nexus still exists, but some modders are pulling their stuff from the nexus so that you have to get the paid version on Steam. Unfortunately it's a lot of the big awesome mods that are going paid only.
At best, there's a major rift in the mod community, and a ton of the amazing content people have been using for years is now behind a paywall.
Gabe responded on Reddit about this.
https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/33uplp/mods_and_steam/
"On Thursday I was flying back from LA. When I landed, I had 3,500 new messages. Hmmm. Looks like we did something to piss off the Internet.
Yesterday I was distracted as I had to see my surgeon about a blister in my eye (#FuchsDystrophySucks), but I got some background on the paid mods issues.
So here I am, probably a day late, to make sure that if people are pissed off, they are at least pissed off for the right reasons"
"Yeah nexus still exists, but some modders are pulling their stuff from the nexus so that you have to get the paid version on Steam. Unfortunately it's a lot of the big awesome mods that are going paid only."
Yeah, I bet some people do want to make money on what they create. I am not sure what I would do if I were them.
"At best, there's a major rift in the mod community, and a ton of the amazing content people have been using for years is now behind a paywall."
Yeah I bet there is a rift. Over time paid / free mods will be a thing and it will sort itself out I just hope Skyrim endures, it's a great game and it's sad to see people have problems playing it.
Yeah I wasn't satisfied with most of Gabe's answers on reddit. It seems like he dodged or didn't understand the important ones. He may just be in damage control mode and I get that.
This move is basically an overnight regime change, so revolt and unrest isn't at all surprising. If this system had been implemented with a new game, it would likely be largely received in a positive light. The biggest problem today, is that current game states, for people using mods which now require payment, is broken. To fix it, and continue the game you've already been playing, you have to pay more money. Keeping in mind that we've been playing a modified game, without any license or guarantee, and we aren't owed anything (that's the risk of using mods), this abrupt change in economy still seems really irresponsible on the part of Valve and Bethesda, and reeks a bit of opportunistic greed.
I can't tell if most people upset by this are simply users or actual modders, but the arguments seem to swing from "Why should I pay for something I've used for years without paying?" to "This will ruin the existing modding scene?" Both seem unconcerned with the fact that modding a game is a privilege, not a right, set forward by the games original creator. It's a wildly amazing part of geek culture, and I'm grateful for it. If anyone is going to profit off of mods, though, the original content creator should recieve the bulk of the revenue. People are contrasting this current revenue split with that of the Apple App Store, and they are two completely different models. The 75% split going to the devs on the App Store is for content they are creating from scratch (theoretically), not modified content of someone elses creation. Not to mention that the discretion is on the modder to charge for the mod (a little publicized fact). They can still offer mods for free, but if they want to start charging for derivative content, then the curators and IP creators should get a proportional cut. Bethesda could have forced every modder to charge for mods, but they didn't.
Reminds me of this enlightening scene in Tombstone: https://youtu.be/JJ79nNquQ0c
I don't know if the original creator should keep the bulk of revenue for a mod but a halfy half split seems reasonable to me. Thing is Valve takes it's cut, Bethesda takes its 45% and now the modder has 25%? I guess it's better than nothing but it's not amazing.
As to people not wanting to pay for things that were previously free, yeah you know I don't know how to address that. I don't partake in a ton of mods and if they all went pay I don't think it would bother me too much. If someone charges money for what they create seems to be up to them and I don't care about playing every bit of content in a game for $0.
Garry from Garry's Mod has some thoughts on the situation:
http://garry.tv/2015/04/24/paying-for-mods/
I disagree with Garry that this provides better choice and better supported mods for users. Nothing has shown that to be true. So far the "better choice" is a barrel full of 50 cent weapons and taking away previous choices, and there are already many examples of incredibly poorly designed mods being charged for.
Now in the long run he may be right, but currently that isn't the case at all, and you can't call it a positive without evidence that it will come to pass.
(from http://garry.tv/2015/04/24/paying-for-mods/) ...but itâs the modderâs work that is making the money
Is it the modders mod that's making the money, or is it the original IP that drives that market? People aren't commissioning artists to paint Spider-man, simply because they are great artists. They are also, and more prominantly, paying for a composition of the character, one of which the artist likely had absolutely no hand in creating. If I'm laying the groundwork, and someone else is making more money than me because of my work, is that fair?
Now, I would totally think it logical that Valve should get less of a cut, since they really don't do much but offer convenience of execution. As of now, reportedly, the modder gets more than half of what Bethesda gets. That's totally fair. Maybe Valve should only get 15%, leaving the modder with 35% and Bethesda with 50%. Would that be better?
"Is it the modders mod that's making the money, or is it the original IP that drives that market? People aren't commissioning artists to paint Spider-man, simply because they are great artists. They are also, and more prominantly, paying for a composition of the character, one of which the artist likely had absolutely no hand in creating."
I agree. I also think there is a place for remix culture and it's not bad to figure out a system where everyone gets paid. For me, it's get a bit more hazy when certain people don't want to allow fan contributions OR remix creations. For instance, in music, anyone can cover a song and you don't need the authors permission to do that. If you do that and make money from it there is a royalty that is due to the composer. I kind of wish we had a system like that for most stuff and it seems Valve is sort of allowing the creators to set that which is nice but also problematic as the split seems a bit uneven.
"If I'm laying the groundwork, and someone else is making more money than me because of my work, is that fair?"
I heard this the other day and it seemed good. Not really what you mean, but it's about fairness and thinking about others having enough. For me, I am not as worried about Bethesda and want to see mod creators get a nicer slice.
http://www.stuffeddrunkandmerry.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/neighbor.jpg
I don't understand why Bethesda should get more than the modder. It's not like the modder is redistributing a modified version of Skyrim, they're distributing a small chunk that was created using Bethesda's tools. Unity and Unreal Engine don't take a 50% cut of profits made using their tools. There are no assets being redistributed. It's just a framework with which to create content in a particular context.
Skyrim is more than a framework, it's a finished house. Unreal Engine is nothing without the games that come from it. Skryim will always be Skyrim (I hope), mods are superfluous to the Skyrim experience. Fun, and some even genius, but in the end, superfluous.
Yeah Skyrim is a finished house, but the mods are using a framework to create new content. They aren't selling Skyrim with extra content, they're only selling the extra content.
"If I'm laying the groundwork, and someone else is making more money than me because of my work, is that fair?"
I heard this the other day and it seemed good. Not really what you mean, but it's about fairness and thinking about others having enough. For me, I am not as worried about Bethesda and want to see mod creators get a nicer slice.
Would you think it more fair that there was a sliding scale of profit distribution the more successful a product is, essentially taking responsibility away from the creator to be fair, and placing a restriction on excess profits? Isn't that basically capitalism vs. socialism? Is that what this is all about?
But, as you said, Travis, it's new content within the context of Skyrim. Without the context of Skyrim, that mod would be irrelevant. A new bathroom added to a house may increase the overall value of a house, but, without the house, that bathroom is fairly useless. Unless you're camping :).
Right, and that's a good analogy. The people who made and installed your bathroom don't have to pay the original house designer 50% of their profits.
Furthermore, if mods add value to the game, in a case like the mod that finished the incomplete war between the imperials and storm cloaks, or the mod that fixes crucial bugs (unofficial Skyrim patch, I think it's called), if those mod designers charged, the mod designer is paying Bethesda for the opportunity to fix problems in their game.
Basically what I'm saying is that Bethesda or whoever could just release an unfinished game (which while I loved Skyrim, it kinda was unfinished), and rake in profits while others finish it for them.
"scrypt: Would you think it more fair that there was a sliding scale of profit distribution the more successful a product is, essentially taking responsibility away from the creator to be fair, and placing a restriction on excess profits? Isn't that basically capitalism vs. socialism? Is that what this is all about?"
It's not socialism at all, it's just a system where people that create stuff all get paid appropriately. Some people might get super rich from it, nothing wrong with that. Having the government decide the split seems good but often isn't because when such a system needs updating and there is little political will to do it, things suffer. So I like Valves approach but as we see with Let's Plays and YouTube where the company decides the split, it gets a bit uneven(Looking at Nintendo).
So yeah, I don't know what the proper system is myself but this seems like a good first step. I think that we will see some game developers giving all the money to mod creators and some getting more. I think we might see more or less content based on the rev split and I am curious how that will all work out.
Basically what I'm saying is that Bethesda or whoever could just release an unfinished game (which while I loved Skyrim, it kinda was unfinished), and rake in profits while others finish it for them.
That's a funny position, because that's what some feel the industry suffering from at the moment, only It's being done without mods (most Early Access, Destiny, Sim City, Battlefield 4, etc.). "Unfinished" also seems highly subjective these days. Most of my friends have put hundreds of hours into Skyrim. Unfinished or not, it's playable, and quite enjoyable. If Destiny supported mods, I would be ecstatic, and yet I've put hundreds of hours into it. Destiny is a proof of concept, and not much more than that. Should someone else be able to make a living helping to finish the game, without the consent from, or payment going to Bungie? Some would say "Hell, yes!", but I would argue, no. Make your own game. Look at Star Wars. In my opinion, Lucas did horrible things to his creation, but ultimately it's his creation and he can do whatever he wants with it. Yes, I think there may be cultural responsibilities, but in the end it's his art. Money has changed hands, licenses transferred, and now we are getting a Star Wars that we really want (hopefully) ;).
The house building analogy isn't perfect. Obviously, contractors are hired to build specific additions, not given tools to do what they want and then compensated retroactively based on an arbitrary scale. However, when the house eventually goes to market and sells, that bathroom contractor won't see a dime of the sale profits.
A game creator does not have to support the modding community. As I said before, this is a privilege subject to the terms of the original IP holder. Mods created outside of consent of the original creator is a breach of copyright law. Jon's comment about anyone being able to cover another artists song and not having to get permission, is only partly true. Performance of someone else's work in public is technically an infringement on copyright law, and the license holder could definitely take action. It's done so often and so widely that it's near impossible to police, but that doesn't necessarily make it okay.
I'll ignore the Star Wars getting changes from Lucas post release thing, not because I don't have an opinion but because I want to keep this about mods and since we love Star Wars I could see this conversation changing
That said, it seems OK to me(and the courts) that you can modify the things you own if you want. Might mess up a warranty or break it, but it seems you can change things you own. It get strange with digital goods, but I am pretty sure I have the spirt of the law right when I say that if I want to change something for my own use that should be fine. Distribution gets tricky(as you say) so Valve making a system like this with the original owners in mind is great.
"Performance of someone else's work in public is technically an infringement on copyright law, and the license holder could definitely take action."
I was talking about covers, which you're right doesn't quite address the modding issue specifically. I've covered songs at a live gig before, I think I owe someone some money but I never paid it. My apologies to U2 or whomever
That said, I still side with creators and people getting paid but I am not sure what I think when someone wants to lock what they do down and not allow any outside contributions to it. On one hand that seems wrong to me but on the other hand I don't mind granting a limited monopoly on something so people can sell it(the basic premise of copyright as I understand it but IANAL).
"A game creator does not have to support the modding community. As I said before, this is a privilege subject to the terms of the original IP holder."
Nobody is arguing the legality. No doubt Bethesda could disallow modding altogether or require $200 a pop for them. They are perfectly within their right to charge whatever they want. That doesn't mean it's good for their fans or their thriving mod community.
OK I meant "I wasn't arguing legality," certainly there are legal points to be brought up, but my points were never about what they should be allowed to do.
We're not really arguing what's best for Bethesda, or their fans, but rather the viability of this new system, and the timing of it. To think that this will substantially change the modding community is silly, I think, and people that are taking reactionary actions are essentially protecting their own interests (and that's fine). Funny, though, that Modder A is understood, even lauded, in their actions to take down mod content because they don't want anyone else profiting off of their work, and yet Bethesda is being chastised for wanting a share in a completely optional system, if anyone cares to participate, but basically following the same principle. I don't understand that. Money isn't evil, nor is wanting compensation for work. Saying that Bethesda hasn't done any work, in regards to these mods, is missing the point. These mods would not exist without Bethesda's blessing, and Bethesda holds the rights.
Here's something interesting I just read though. Tons, TONS of mods are created with new assets from the free versions of Autodesk software. Many of those are now charging for their mods. This is against the ToS of the Autodesk educational software. There's an interesting legal issue.
I still don't know what you're arguing with "Bethesda holds the rights." Nobody has disputed that.
What if this system was implemented with Camera Obscura (which, as of now, has a total of 2 Steam Workshop files) instead of Skyrim?
Also, @jdodson but I am not sure what I think when someone wants to lock what they do down and not allow any outside contributions to it. That's an interesting statement. Feelings aside, do you think they should have the right to do this?
With Camera Obscura it would certainly be less disruptive by a long shot.
I still don't know what you're arguing with "Bethesda holds the rights." Nobody has disputed that.
I thought one of the primary arguments was compensation, and how it should be divided, not whether this was good for the fans. My arguments concerning Bethesda as a copyright holder point toward the rationale of them getting a bigger cut than someone building a modification to their game (finished, or otherwise).
Ah you're saying that is what entitles them to more compensation. OK.
Well yeah they're entitled to whatever they want to take, but they can't expect the world to be happy about that distribution. Is it fair? Does fairness even matter? I don't know. But it isn't good.
That was essentially my argument, that, I feel, it is fair, contrary to what's being said. Specifically as it concerns the contrast to what App Store vendors make. http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2015/04/24/dayz-creator-weighs-in-on-paid-skyrim-mods-your-turn-rockstar/
"That's an interesting statement. Feelings aside, do you think they should have the right to do this?"
Ugh. As a human I don't know how to seperate feelings from myself because they are part of my experience. Some say they can do it and I think they are not being accurate.
That said, I think in certain contexts ... I guess.
But I heard some musician say they wanted to lock down their music so certain people couldn't cover the music. I don't want to get into the context of the person that said it because it's not something I want to talk about BUT the notion of excluding certain people from that seems really wrong to me.
In the case of covering a song I think it's better to allow anyone to do it and charge a royalty.
In the case of a review video on YouTube I think it's better to allow them to show clips from said video if the majority of the work is original and charge a royalty.
In the case of a Let's Play video I think it's better to allow it and in the cases where the author wishes charge a royalty.
In the case of video game mods I think it's better to allow it and where the author wishes charge a royalty.
But as to the question of locking a work down from all outside contributions entirely? I guess so but it seems against the notion how stuff is created, which is to build on the work of others.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Clause
"To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries."
Ugh. As a human I don't know how to seperate feelings from myself because they are part of my experience. Some say they can do it and I think they are not being accurate.
I hope you stay away from serving on a jury! :D
Well seriously, unless you're a Vulcan you can't. And even if you're a Vulcan you can't always. :)
This might be getting off topic, but your pull quote explains exactly how the copyright laws protect creativity; by giving "exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries." This isn't like programming, where open-source is a cool thing. "Open source" art isn't generally considered cool, especially among struggling artists. Working from inspiration and getting better at your craft by learning from someone else's work is an entirely different conversation.
More than likely why I wasn't selected for Jury duty. That said I bet is was because I made the entire court room laugh and the lawyer wasn't. It was fun, but you know I didn't get to serve and that bummed me out. Always next time.
That said, I can't separate myself from emotions but I can make choices based on rules. I do that all the time.
"Well seriously, unless you're a Vulcan you can't. And even if you're a Vulcan you can't always. :)"
https://longboxgraveyard.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/spock.jpg
I've been at court for jury selection twice but both times they had the jury before I even got called into the courtroom for the questions. I was also bummed out, I wanted to do it. Civic duty and all that.
Also @scrypt: I'll say that they are entitled to it but it isn't exactly "fair" but at that point you get into a debate of semantics that I'm really not interested in, lol
And Jon, a brief aside-- your pic-- did it bug you how different NewSpock is from OldSpock in how his emotions are controlled?
"And Jon, a brief aside-- your pic-- did it bug you how different NewSpock is from OldSpock in how his emotions are controlled?"
Yes, it does. One of the reasons people loved Spock is because he was the guy that could keep it cool most of the time. HE WAS THE BEST OF US!
For the record, Defense Council Travis, did you read this article before making that last comment? http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2015/04/24/dayz-creator-weighs-in-on-paid-skyrim-mods-your-turn-rockstar/
I don't want to argue semantics, either. That sounds exhausting! ;)
"This isn't like programming, where open-source is a cool thing. "Open source" art isn't generally considered cool, especially among struggling artists."
Creative Commons stuff is the closest thing I can think of when I think of Open Source art, and I think lots of it is cool. That said we both care about people making a livable wage and if they can do that with what they do, the better.
"Working from inspiration and getting better at your craft by learning from someone else's work is an entirely different conversation."
True, but when we consider how stuff is made realizing that we don't build in a bubble helps when we try to think about what kinds of laws to work inside.
I did, and I disagree with some of the points used to get to that.
But the fact of the matter is that this is entirely uncharted water and there are no analogies for what is going on here. The app store model doesn't work here, neither does the professional developer percentage example. It isn't exactly a derivative work. It isn't 100% new content.
I think it will work itself out to a good spot eventually (hopefully, maybe) but damn did they ever pick a bad game to start this experiment.
I think it will work itself out to a good spot eventually (hopefully, maybe) but damn did they ever pick a bad game to start this experiment.
100% Agreed.
The only thing that concerns me, and this is going slightly off-topic but maybe not really, is that they've known for a while that Greenlight is broken, Early Access is broken, and their customer support is broken, and they've said "yes we're working on that" for a while now, and nothing has really changed.
People are saying this is the death knell for Steam and that's going way over the top, it's nothing of the sort. But I hope they do actually start working on their problems.
I'm betting, and this could be me being totally naive, that once Galaxy drops from GoG, you might see Valve a little more active on maintenance front. That level of a competing product, I hope, would be taken seriously by Valve. I'd like to see Riot form a relationship with GoG. I doubt it will happen, but that would be a fun, big deal ;). Now I'm getting way off topic!
"People are saying this is the death knell for Steam and that's going way over the top, it's nothing of the sort. But I hope they do actually start working on their problems."
Death knell for Steam? heh. That said, I imagine they will improve, they seem to be getting better every year.
"I'm betting, and this could be me being totally naive, that once Galaxy drops from GoG, you might see Valve a little more active on maintenance front."
I used to just want to own games in one place(Steam) but now I really like that I have quite the catalog on GOG, Humble, Origin and Ubi. I might not love Ubi's system but it's nice to know I don't have all my eggs in one basket. I like GOG so I wish them well and hope for a nice client launch I can try out soon.
Origin is getting really good, actually. And they have top-notch support from everything I've read.
Did you two sign up for the GOG Galaxy beta? It's pretty sweet in its early form. A client was the only thing I was missing from GOG, now that they have it I'm super-excited.
As for Ubi I have no real experience with their client by itself. I've only ever used it through Steam. I've never bought anything straight from Ubi's store/client, it just launches when I play an Ubi game from Steam. For the most part it gets out of your way but sometimes something just blows its mind.
As for "they seem to be getting better every year," as far as I know the big complaints people have had in recent years haven't been touched, most notably their customer support. Steam in the early days was a nightmare, though, and they've definitely improved their client and framework over the years, and earned their seat at the top of the PC client charts, but some competition would help improve some of the other issues.
And scrypt, let's just embrace being off-topic :)
What kinds of support issues should they address? I've had support issues in the past and they took a bit to get back to me but seemed to help me out. Are you talking about games running at all or people not figuring out how to work Steam?
No their customer support is just straight up bad. They take weeks to answer and then pick out some keyword for the question, paste a form answer that doesn't solve the problem, then it takes two more weeks to get a further response back. Every time Gabe shows up in an online discussion he seems to pre-emptively address it too, like "I know it's terrible, we're working on it."
I can't remember what the question was, but last year some time I had a question that went unanswered from two different support reps pasting two different form answers that had nothing to do with my problem. I eventually just gave up. At some point in there they told me my ban wouldn't be lifted, even though I've never been banned.
http://www.pcgamer.com/valve-on-customer-service-support-we-have-to-do-better/
This discusses their current stance on it.
https://www.change.org/p/valve-corporation-improve-steam-customer-support
A petition with examples, and some of these are kinda like what I dealt with.
I've never gone directly to Valve for support issues. I usually surf for answers on the web. Maybe I've never had a serious enough issue, but then I rarely, if ever, go to software companies for tech support. I don't know why. It might be more helpful if I did (or not, as the case may be).
I believe I signed up for the Galaxy beta, but never heard anything from GoG. I'm really anxious to try it out, as that's the only reason a lot of my GoG games have gone uninstalled. It's a sad excuse, I know, but there it is.
It isn't a sad excuse, at all. It's why I haven't bought many games from GOG. Having a client is so convenient!
Honestly, coming back to this after a few hours, I'm still really quite upset at the fact that they could have done some incredibly basic QA to determine that save files could be totally screwed for people who don't wish to buy the mods that transition to the paid model, and neither company did. That's the kind of oversight people get fired over, it's so incredibly simple.
I moved my Xbox 360 save over to PC, and installed the DLC, and tons of mods. Played happily for quite a while, and now that game is ruined. I could pirate the mods, but Jeez, should I really have to do that to continue my game? I'm just disgusted and disappointed.
Wouldn't you just have to chalk that up to the risk of using mods? I don't think that QA could have helped. The fact that the game states haven't been transferable between modded and natural games is evident of that. Who would you hold responsible for that?
Bethesda knows that save games under modded games require those mods. If you have any state saved that changes the defaults a mod installs, then your save file requires those mods, and removing them will break it. Bethesda and/or Valve should have known that modders would take away their free mods to replace them with paid mods. It's a very short line to broken save files.
Plus, "the risk of using mods" isn't something they can reference anymore, if that's paying customers.
(no, I'm not a paying customer in this case)
Also under normal circumstances, with the previous "risk of using mods," I could roll back to a known working mod if something broke.
I can't do that anymore. The workshop removed my file automatically because I didn't pay for it (even though it was free when I subscribed to it), and the mod is no longer available on the Nexus.
ALSO I should learn to fully think through my comment before posting so I don't end up with 5 where one would have sufficed.
I'm sure they understood that save games could break, but what could they have done to prevent that from happening (aside from, of course, not implementing this system)?
1. Grandfathering in existing Steam mod subscribers to not require them to pay.
2. Not doing it.
3. Heavily modifying the Skyrim save system to... OK this is nutty impractical.
Here is a Lawrence Lessig talk on laws that choke creativity. It's about remix culture and is from 2007 so it's somewhat dated. That said I think it's relevant to this discussion as companies are now allowing mods(I think they are kind of remix) to be monetized by mod creators and this seems like a good development if not implemented strangely in the case of Skyrim.
http://www.ted.com/talks/larry_lessig_says_the_law_is_strangling_creativity?language=en
I don't know how I feel about so-called "remix culture." Frankly, I think it's weird that everything has an index these days; an ism, or a culture, or genre, or whatever the next thing is. I don't really buy his whole talk either, for some reason. Good art and creativity tend to come out of adversity. The poignancy of message is lost when the struggle for art is watered down to the point where no message can even take hold. Personally, I'm not a fan of sampling, even though I like some songs that use it. I remember watching the Grammys one year ( I think it was the Grammys), and Sean Combs was on stage with Sting, and they did some weird mash-up of Every Breath You Take, with Combs rapping during what would be the verses... It was a sad moment for me. I suppose you could argue that it was creative, but to me it just looked like bad art, and a poor representation of each of those artists abilities. Remixing the works of existing art can sometimes bring about cool things, I guess, but often it just comes off as uninspired. As a creator, why would I want to literally base my work on someone else's? Then there is the misrepresentation of the original artist; how often is credit given to the original work in these remixes?
I'll have to watch Lessig's talk a couple more times. I didn't see anything in there about laws choking creativity, which I'm not sure is even possible.
Good article from a perspective of a modder who would like to be paid.
http://www.pcgamer.com/im-a-modder-i-deserve-compensation/
I've seen some posts where people are saying "This is what we want, we want modders to get jobs working for studios." I mean, I don't think that's the dream for everyone. In the case of this modder, it's not his at all.
After watching through a couple more times, I think I'm even more confused. I feel like Lessig is insinuating the stifling of creativity, but what he's really talking about is the stifling of innovation, which makes a lot more sense to me. Opening user generated content up for business should be the title of the talk (it's his opening statement). His examples don't seem to hold water, either. Did ASCAP suffer because BMI offered free music, or due to boycott because of an attempt at outrageous increases in licensing fees (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASCAP_boycott), which would be a much different story.
An argument could also be made that such uses of remixing or free access have actually hindered creativity, at least in some respects. Pieces become rehashes of rehashes to the point where we're just living in a loop of regurgitated art (this is basically why 'hipsters' are a thing). It's innovative, but not really creative. When everyone has access to everything all the time, the landscape tends to look uniform, the past and the present blur, and then how are you left to express yourself?
Why does the date on that article say April 26, 2011? What is the criteria for posting on PC Gamer? It reads more like a blog post. He doesn't really make any points as to why he should get paid as a modder, only that he deserves it because he works hard, while mocking the companies that allow modding in the first place. In fact, at one point he basically is just telling the reader to abandon opinion, and agree that modders deserve to get paid. That's not a good article.
"Why does the date on that article say April 26, 2011?"
It's says "on hour ago" to me, but it could be some bug.
"What is the criteria for posting on PC Gamer? It reads more like a blog post."
I guess i'd compare it to an opinion piece like you'd see in a newspapers opinion column. I don't mind a diversity of opinions on a particular topic, not sure where he urged anyone to abandon a point of view, but I sort of lightly read it.
As to what you said about Lessig, I hear you. I mostly agree with his points but I can see where you are coming from. If culture has become worse because of technology in the ways in which you say, that may be true. That said, compared to earlier decades i've been part of there are tons more options and I think, in general, I am pretty happy with the quality of creative works. I think the market is in a "sequel-itus" sort of focus which can be good(loved the new Dawn of the Apes movie) but can also be as you say, rehashes and not very good.
tl;read anyways
I'm surpised no one has mentioned Dota yet. That game was a mod of WC3. They eventually broke off to make their own game. Their game did not add features to the existing WC3 game like most skyrim mods do. They created a new game with WC3's tools.
I don't play too many mods because I'm lazy to look them up and install them and keep everything updated. I did use some oblivion mods and they were awesome.
Here's my thoughts on what has happened:
They shouldn't have implemented this on a game that's been out for so long with free mods for so long. No one made those mods to make money and changing it now seems silly.
As a consumer, I hope there is a good balance to this. Twas a good point about developers releasing unfinished games on purpose to allow modders the ability to finish the game for them and still let them reap the profits. I think ultimately, this will balance itself. Modders will look for a good split and good effort before they spend their own time "fixing" a game. And hopefully a company recognizes this when they release a half finished game. This could be beneficial... There's certainly been games that developers gave up on half way but could have been released due to high demand and available modders wanting to tackle it
From a modder perspective, it only opens doors, so I don't see a negative here. They can still create a mod and release it for free if they choose. They just now have another choice and this may drive modders to create even better content. (The flip of that is of course, people now creating and trying to sell shitty mods. Again though, the market will have to sort that out).
I'm really not sure what valve is doing for their cut though. It seems crazy they want to take such a huge slice.
I think the cut between developer and modder should be case by case and will be driven by supply and demand. If a company is releasing a game with mod support and they want active modders to keep their game alive, maybe they'll offer a better split. However, if a top tier game is being released and they have plenty of their own content to come or they just know their game is solid and will be a prominent game w/o mods, they may very well take a bigger cut from modders. And why not?
Modders will start looking at games to mod and add it up themselves. The biggeer the game, the bigger audience it hits and more likely their mods will earn them money. Maybe a modder will make mods for Elder Scrolls VI even though their cut may be 15% instead of for Neighborhood Backyard Brawl where they'd receive a 35% cut because in the big picture, they know they'll make more money from a bigger game.
I can only hope that the quality of the games and mods don't suffer from this.
But yeah...Dota. I'm curious how things would have developed with that game had this new program been implemented back then.
Bethesda wrote a bit about why they are doing paid mods.
http://www.bethblog.com/2015/04/27/why-were-trying-paid-skyrim-mods-on-steam/
"This was in 2012 and we had many questions, but only one demand. It had to be open, not curated like the current models. At every step along the way with mods, we have had many opportunities to step in and control things, and decided not to. We wanted to let our players decide what is good, bad, right, and wrong. We will not pass judgment on what they do. Weâre even careful about highlighting a modder on this blog for that very reason.
Three years later and Valve has finally solved the technical and legal hurdles to make such a thing possible, and they should be celebrated for it. It wasnât easy. They are not forcing us, or any other game, to do it. They are opening a powerful new choice for everyone.
We believe most mods should be free. But we also believe our community wants to reward the very best creators, and that they deserve to be rewarded. We believe the best should be paid for their work and treated like the game developers they are. But again, we donât think itâs right for us to decide who those creators are or what they create."
Looks like they're pulling it: http://steamcommunity.com/games/SteamWorkshop/announcements/detail/208632365253244218
"But we underestimated the differences between our previously successful revenue sharing models, and the addition of paid mods to Skyrim's workshop. We understand our own game's communities pretty well, but stepping into an established, years old modding community in Skyrim was probably not the right place to start iterating. We think this made us miss the mark pretty badly, even though we believe there's a useful feature somewhere here. "
Right. I hope they continue the model with some other game though, it's not a bad way to roll if it's the right fit. Travis, are you happy with this? Will you come back to Skyrim? I hope your game isn't forever hosed.
Good on them!
If my game can be continued then yeah I'll definitely come back to it.
And I was never against the model, just the implementation of it and the fact that they chose a game with a vibrant mod community already, and massively changed how it worked.
And seriously "we obviously had no idea what we were doing" is about the most honest thing I've ever heard from a company. I love them for that.
I'm disappointed in how short sighted they were but this redeems them entirely.
Wow, this will be the 80th comment!
It works! I had to resubscribe to a couple. There seems to be at least one that I have forgotten, but it doesn't halt my save file loading or anything.
I messed around a bit, and I'm remembering why I stopped playing last time. I can't get to Solstheim! The loading screen just loads indefinitely. Perhaps I'll work on fixing that.
But yeah, the save file is back. :)
That was kind of an intense two-day roller coaster! Now, we're right back where we started, except there is this thing that happened, which will hopefully come back in a better way. It feels like it was all a dream...
Haha, yeah. EA has been pretty nice lately.